Close coupling a Hornby HST power car

[125_driver]

So I have a few Hornby HST TTS power cars (the intercity swallow version) and am looking at trying to bridge the ghastly gap between power car and leading coach. 

 

I have tried the Hunt coupling magnetic coupling but this seems to quite often come apart at speed presumably due to the trailing weight of 8 mk3s plus dummy power car. 

Is there any suggestions for getting around this problem? Either with mods to the Hunt couplings , a different make of coupling that would be suitable for the Hornby HST?, or similarly does anyone know if the latest Hornby Hsts have a different closer coupling compared with the 2020 version?

Any advice or experience or tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you. 

[RFS]

4 hours ago, 125_driver said:

So I have a few Hornby HST TTS power cars (the intercity swallow version) and am looking at trying to bridge the ghastly gap between power car and leading coach. 

 

I have tried the Hunt coupling magnetic coupling but this seems to quite often come apart at speed presumably due to the trailing weight of 8 mk3s plus dummy power car. 

Is there any suggestions for getting around this problem? Either with mods to the Hunt couplings , a different make of coupling that would be suitable for the Hornby HST?, or similarly does anyone know if the latest Hornby Hsts have a different closer coupling compared with the 2020 version?

Any advice or experience or tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you. 

 

I've recently converted all my couplings to Hunt and I am not experiencing problems with uncoupling even with long rakes (11 Hornby Maunsell coaches, Bachmann MK1s etc.).  I also understand they're capable of more than that too. Got through more than 20 packs!

 

However, the coupling length needs to be correct especially for going round curves. Do these Hornby HSTs have any close-coupling mechanism (CCM) or are the couplings direct to the bogies? Do the uncoupling issues occur only on curves?  If both of these are true then it's worth checking closely that the buffers don't come together on the curves and force the couplings apart.  I have some Hornby and Bachmann EMUs coupled in sets and none of these have CCMs on the outer ends of the units, so I had to choose a coupling length that ensured the units stayed together going round bends. 

[125_driver]

9 minutes ago, RFS said:

 

I've recently converted all my couplings to Hunt and I am not experiencing problems with uncoupling even with long rakes (11 Hornby Maunsell coaches, Bachmann MK1s etc.).  I also understand they're capable of more than that too. Got through more than 20 packs!

 

However, the coupling length needs to be correct especially for going round curves. Do these Hornby HSTs have any close-coupling mechanism (CCM) or are the couplings direct to the bogies? Do the uncoupling issues occur only on curves?  If both of these are true then it's worth checking closely that the buffers don't come together on the curves and force the couplings apart.  I have some Hornby and Bachmann EMUs coupled in sets and none of these have CCMs on the outer ends of the units, so I had to choose a coupling length that ensured the units stayed together going round bends. 

Thanks for replying. The uncoupling is relatively random although generally NOT on curves. I think the issue is that the Hunt HST power car coupling is a smallish magnet compared with the trailer magnet. Due to the Hornby HST coupling design you cannot just use a larger trailer coupling magnet as it wouldn't be the right height. If the HsT Power car hunt coupling had the same size magnet as the coaches magnet I reckon the problem wouldn't occur. 

[Patriot87003]

33 minutes ago, 125_driver said:

Thanks for replying. The uncoupling is relatively random although generally NOT on curves. I think the issue is that the Hunt HST power car coupling is a smallish magnet compared with the trailer magnet. Due to the Hornby HST coupling design you cannot just use a larger trailer coupling magnet as it wouldn't be the right height. If the HsT Power car hunt coupling had the same size magnet as the coaches magnet I reckon the problem wouldn't occur. 

By mentioning that the Hunt HST power car magnets are smaller … are they the original small circular magnets? It sounds like the HST trailer magnets being larger are the elite type? So it sounds like you maybe mixing magnet types?

 

Westhill WagonWorks sell a separate pack of Elite buckeye style magnets for power cars …

https://www.westhillwagonworks.co.uk/hunt-couplings-c-2/hunt-couplings-elite-oo-gauge-c-21/additional-pair-of-hst-powercar-buckeye-elite-couplings-p-133

 

I converted my HST to the Elite buckeye style and have had no problems since, although that is using the heavier/detailed tooling of the power cars. It looks like the recently released Railroad power cars have a similar coupling mechanism and NEM pocket, however the new releases of the full-fat tooling now have a close coupling mechanism with NEM pocket at a different height.

[125_driver]

22 minutes ago, Patriot87003 said:

By mentioning that the Hunt HST power car magnets are smaller … are they the original small circular magnets? It sounds like the HST trailer magnets being larger are the elite type? So it sounds like you maybe mixing magnet types?

 

Westhill WagonWorks sell a separate pack of Elite buckeye style magnets for power cars …

https://www.westhillwagonworks.co.uk/hunt-couplings-c-2/hunt-couplings-elite-oo-gauge-c-21/additional-pair-of-hst-powercar-buckeye-elite-couplings-p-133

 

I converted my HST to the Elite buckeye style and have had no problems since, although that is using the heavier/detailed tooling of the power cars. It looks like the recently released Railroad power cars have a similar coupling mechanism and NEM pocket, however the new releases of the full-fat tooling now have a close coupling mechanism with NEM pocket at a different height.

Ah ha , now I hadn't realised there was a newer better version. I've just checked and I've got the circular version. I shall purchase some elites and hopefully that will solve the problem. Many thanks for your help. 

[Patriot87003]

18 hours ago, 125_driver said:

Ah ha , now I hadn't realised there was a newer better version. I've just checked and I've got the circular version. I shall purchase some elites and hopefully that will solve the problem. Many thanks for your help. 

My pleasure … hopefully the Elite type will solve the uncoupling issues for you.

I’ve just visited my layout and took a couple of pics … this one shows the difference in magnet size between the elite (left) and original circular version (right). 

The circular type has a single pole magnet (longitudinal) while the elite type has the magnet on its side. So when mixing types the circular type is only attracted to one end of the elite, so reducing the contact area between the magnets. Hence optimum performance it’s probably best to convert all magnets to the elite type.

[125_driver]

3 hours ago, Patriot87003 said:

My pleasure … hopefully the Elite type will solve the uncoupling issues for you.

I’ve just visited my layout and took a couple of pics … this one shows the difference in magnet size between the elite (left) and original circular version (right). 

The circular type has a single pole magnet (longitudinal) while the elite type has the magnet on its side. So when mixing types the circular type is only attracted to one end of the elite, so reducing the contact area between the magnets. Hence optimum performance it’s probably best to convert all magnets to the elite type.

Yes all my coaches are the elite type I must confess I just hadn't realised there was an elite version of the power cars. I'm sure this will solve the problem, so many many thanks again. 

[Phil Mc]

1 minute ago, 125_driver said:

Yes all my coaches are the elite type I must confess I just hadn't realised there was an elite version of the power cars. I'm sure this will solve the problem, so many many thanks again. 

Hi,

 

I have 3x 8 coach + dummy PC, and 1x 9 coach + dummy PC HST rakes, all of which have Elite couplings and none of them give any problems with coming apart.

The track is far from perfectly level !

I'm sure they will solve your issue.

( no connection to the company, just a satisfied customer. )

Also just converted a full length mk4 rake, and that runs well too.

 

Cheers,

Phil.

[Il Grifone]

For any fixed rake I would use a wirelink coupling.

Do the couplings extend on curves? It might be a worthwhile fitting if not. (It depeds how sharp the curves are.)

A magnet fitted to the gangway connector could be an alternative. It is an idea I have to experiment with. the magnet would obviously have to pivot and it would be an advantage if the connectors were flexible. For fixed rakes a magnet and piece of tinplate would do, otherwise one has to watch the magnetic polarity.

[125_driver]

Sorry to bump up  this thread, but I'm having a big problem with the Hunt Elite couplings just coming out of the NEM pocket when hauling a rake of coaches on the Hornby HST. Its as if the "fishtail"?? is too small and so just slides out of the slot. It only seems to affect the HST power cars and nothing else. I tried glueing a coupling into the NEM pocket, however this had negative unintended consequences in that for some reason there was a loss of magnetism at high speed (presumably the couplings need to have a bit of movement in order to stay attached magnetically). Has anyone else suffered this problem?

Edited August 5, 2023 by 125_driver
......

[Phil Mc]

I've had a few Hunt couplings where the plastic part extends beyond the face of the magnet, but a few strokes with a file to get the plastic flush generally sorts out any issues, by allowing 'full contact' between magnet faces.

Also had a few where the fishtail doesn't hold, and needs gluing in place.

Strangely, some have been fine when first fitted, and become loose after a few weeks, as though the plastic has fully 'cured' and shrunk slightly ?

Magnets pulling out of their housing has happened a few times too, just make sure they go back in the right way up !

None of these things can't be cured by a bit of modelling, and certainly wouldn't put me off using them....

 

Cheers,

Phil.

[125_driver]

22 hours ago, Phil Mc said:

I've had a few Hunt couplings where the plastic part extends beyond the face of the magnet, but a few strokes with a file to get the plastic flush generally sorts out any issues, by allowing 'full contact' between magnet faces.

Also had a few where the fishtail doesn't hold, and needs gluing in place.

Strangely, some have been fine when first fitted, and become loose after a few weeks, as though the plastic has fully 'cured' and shrunk slightly ?

Magnets pulling out of their housing has happened a few times too, just make sure they go back in the right way up !

None of these things can't be cured by a bit of modelling, and certainly wouldn't put me off using them....

 

Cheers,

Phil.

The trouble with glueing the coupling into the bogie is that for some reason when there is zero movement of the coupling and it becomes super rigid then I have found uncoupling occur at speed. Yes not everyone likes to run at speed, but I like to run my layout at a scale (ish) 125mph. I have found when glueing the hunt coupling in place that at speed the magnet works less well. I have also experienced exactly what you describe, a coupling that fits fine, but a few weeks later has "shrunk" and no longer fits. 

[Vistisen]

You could try using A latex Copdex glue. I find that it allows for a bit of movement.