Dumb buffered wagon in Engineering Dept use at Swindon in 1908

[Compound2632]

I expect many of those who inhabit this sub-forum also look at the Didcot Railway Centre's Facebook page. A recent posting there was a splendid view of Swindon A Shop taken in 1908. My attention was caught by a dumb-buffer wagon in the corner:

 

 

The white cross on the door indicates it is in use by the Engineering Department; it has the lettering G . W on the bottom right plank (rather than the usual pre-1904 G. W. R) which I have only otherwise seen on a wood-framed 4-plank wagon in the 1914 Safety Movement booklet. That wagon also carries the inscription "Factory"; there seems to be something similar here.

 

There are some photos taken at Swindon in 1908 in Tony Woods' Saltney Carriage & Wagon Works book, showing wagons dating back to the 1870s (like the 2-plank wagon on the right here) but all sprung-buffered. So I'm curious as to the provenance of this dumb buffered wagon.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Compound2632

[magmouse]

I'd recently seen this picture in Jim Russell's GW Miscellany (volume 2, plate 295). I can't comment on the provenance of the dumb buffered wagon, though I would also draw attention to the tie-bar between the axle-guards - an unusual feature.

 

In the same picture, and included in your crop, is an iron/steel bodied wagon. It looks in many ways like a standard loco coal wagon, but it has square corners, which don't generally come in for these until 1915. It also has a curved brake lever, suggesting it is much older.

 

So, now we have two mysteries...

 

Nick.

Edited January 2, 2023 by magmouse
Spelling!

[magmouse]

I thought it might be useful to add a version of the picture taken from the Russell book. Although the half-screen printing limits the detail, some things are a bit clearer:

 

 

This confirms the dumb buffered wagon is labelled 'factory', and possibly (on the top plank of the left hand side) 'Loco'.

 

The metal-bodied wagon is definitely labelled 'LOCO', and 'G.W.R', both texts placed almost at random on the right hand panel.

 

Also worth noting about the metal bodied wagon:

1. the older style buffers with packing behind the flange of the buffer guide, where it attaches to the buffer beam
2. the buffer beams seem to have solid ends, suggesting they are wood, not metal. Possibly a fitched construction?
3. large, wooden brake shoes, and curved lever as noted previously
4. Grease axle boxes and substantial springs, with more leaves than the later 4-leaf springs
5. Wooden floor
6. Curiously, what seem to be triangular supports on the inside of the ends, possibly corresponding to where the T-stanchions are on the outside
7. The two side knees visible inside the wagon seem to be different, the nearer one having a dark shadow suggesting an L or T cross section, which the further one lacks - most odd.

Is it a left-over from an earlier construction type, suggesting the early iron GW wagons were actually hybrid wood/iron, at least in some cases? Or something made for loco coal use built on an older underframe? Or...?

 

Curiouser and curiouser....

 

Nick.

 

[Paul H Vigor]

1 hour ago, magmouse said:

I thought it might be useful to add a version of the picture taken from the Russell book. Although the half-screen printing limits the detail, some things are a bit clearer:

 

 

This confirms the dumb buffered wagon is labelled 'factory', and possibly (on the top plank of the left hand side) 'Loco'.

 

The metal-bodied wagon is definitely labelled 'LOCO', and 'G.W.R', both texts placed almost at random on the right hand panel.

 

Also worth noting about the metal bodied wagon:

1. the older style buffers with packing behind the flange of the buffer guide, where it attaches to the buffer beam
2. the buffer beams seem to have solid ends, suggesting they are wood, not metal. Possibly a fitched construction?
3. large, wooden brake shoes, and curved lever as noted previously
4. Grease axle boxes and substantial springs, with more leaves than the later 4-leaf springs
5. Wooden floor
6. Curiously, what seem to be triangular supports on the inside of the ends, possibly corresponding to where the T-stanchions are on the outside
7. The two side knees visible inside the wagon seem to be different, the nearer one having a dark shadow suggesting an L or T cross section, which the further one lacks - most odd.

Is it a left-over from an earlier construction type, suggesting the early iron GW wagons were actually hybrid wood/iron, at least in some cases? Or something made for loco coal use built on an older underframe? Or...?

 

Curiouser and curiouser....

 

Nick.

 

... or a dumb-buffered, standard gauge wagon absorbed from another railway acquired by the GWR and downgraded to departmental service? 

[magmouse]

2 minutes ago, Paul H Vigor said:

... or a dumb-buffered, standard gauge wagon absorbed from another railway acquired by the GWR and downgraded to departmental service? 

That seems likely for the dumb buffered wagon - it is so unlike the GWR in its construction. The metal bodied one is a bit harder to fathom…

 

[Paul H Vigor]

4 minutes ago, Paul H Vigor said:

... or a dumb-buffered, standard gauge wagon absorbed from another railway acquired by the GWR and downgraded to departmental service? 

Looks like this wagon was braked on one side only (the other side!)?

[Paul H Vigor]

3 minutes ago, magmouse said:

That seems likely for the dumb buffered wagon - it is so unlike the GWR in its construction. The metal bodied one is a bit harder to fathom…

 

The iron wagon number is just visible (end panel), might this shed some light?

[magmouse]

7 minutes ago, Paul H Vigor said:

The iron wagon number is just visible (end panel), might this shed some light?

If I could read it! Possibly 23674?

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, magmouse said:

Possibly 23674?

 

According to my notes from Atkins et al., G.W.R Goods Wagons (3rd edition), the 23xxx series was populated in part by loco coal wagons, including 32 N6s and 99 N7s, so a random odd iron-bodied wagon in that series seems reasonable.

 

The buffers with their pads look like the self-contained type fitted by the GW to converted broad gauge wagons, going back to No. 25637:

 

 

[magmouse]

Hmmm, a broad gauge conversion, then? Or a standard gauge build of the same period? I have a couple of sets of ABS buffers of that type, waiting a suitable opportunity… I rather fancy doing the 2-plank wagon in the Huntley and Palmer photo, with those buffers and the outside axle guards.

 

Nick.

[Compound2632]

29 minutes ago, magmouse said:

I rather fancy doing the 2-plank wagon in the Huntley and Palmer photo, with those buffers and the outside axle guards.

 

Hey, I'd called dibs on that one!

[magmouse]

36 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Hey, I'd called dibs on that one!

 

OK - you take the 4mm version, and I'll do the 7mm. Anyone else who fancies it can have a crack at either 2mm scale or gauge 1...

 

Nick.