Bachmann/Mainline LMS Jubilee Modifications

[ianLMS]

Taking a short break from kit building, i have turned my attention to some of my older RTR and kit built models, cataloging them and making any improvements to help with appearance and/or running. 

 

I have a few Jubilees already but i found an old Bachmann split chassis "Impregnable" lurking in a storage box. Ripe for improving and changing to 5740 "Munster". (wife is Irish so that always goes down well. Have already built 5572 "Eire").

 

Objective was to spend as little as possible, ideally only using what i had in stock.

 

Improvements so far;

1. Tender

a. Added pick ups

b. Removed moulded coal and added real coal (fitted false floor to protect chip)

c. Added screw couplings (Smiths LP8) and hose

d. Installed DCC chip

e. Discovered after adding coal that Munster had a welded tender issued in 1939 so will sand off rivets and repaint.

f. Sprung buffers (Bachmann)

 

2. Chassis

a. DCC conversion

b. Comet 6'6" bogie w/Alan Gibson 3' 31/2" wheels

c. New tender connector bar

d. Will repaint cylinders Crimson

e. Checked nylon axles and all good.

 

3. Body

a. The boilers bands are too prominant so removed the moulded ones and will replace with Wizard coach roof lining tape

b. 247 Developments dome

c. Jamieson chimney (now removed-see comments in later replies)

d. Fitted new front steps (comet) and buffers from Bachmann

e. Added lamp irons, front hand rails and replaced moulded smoke box door dart with a brass one from Markits.

f. Thinned smoke box door number mounting block

g. Thinned nameplate ready for etched one (Fox)

h. Filled large gap in join on each side of firebox

i. Removed moulding joint/flash on top of boiler/firebox

j. Removed moulded door handles on cab. Will replace with .45 wire

k. Will replace handrails/ejector With brass wire/rod/pipe

l. Repaint, line and paint backhead.

m. Add crew from Modelu

n. Use microscope slide for the cab windows

o. Fit screw coupling

 

If anyone can recommend any other simple "improvements" let me know!!

 

Thanks

Ian

 

Edited January 20, 2023 by ianLMS
Corrected chimney info

[Flying Pig]

8 minutes ago, ianLMS said:

If anyone can recommend any other simple "improvements" let me know!!

 

 

That's a pretty comprehensive list.  The only addition I can think of from when I detailed my original Mainline 5690 about forty years ago, is that I drilled blind holes to represent the washout plugs on top of the boiler.  That was based on a photo in, I think, Haresnape's Stanier Locomotives.

 

I hesitate to criticise the work you've done so far, but I'm not convinced by the chimney.  The Jubilee chimney is to my eye a very graceful appendage and that one doesn't really capture the gentle curves, particularly the flare at the base.  I remember finding the original Mainline effort dreadfully ugly (the moulding was later modified) and replacing it with a whitemetal casting which I thought a great improvement.  No idea where the casting came from - LMS loco parts in 4mm scale practically grew on trees in those days.

 

[ianLMS]

Thanks for that. Will see if i can find a pic showing the blind holes and see if i have a better chimney. If not, i am sure i can order one for a few pennies!! I think it was a JE one from Phoenix but i can be sure as the original packaging had long gone. It may have been one meant for a Black 5!

[sjp23480]

I have a 5711 Courageous getting similar treatment to become 45700 Amethyst in BR Black with Fowler tender.  

 

I think the Bachmann cylinders look a bit puny, but I have not had the courage to try to replace them with something more beefy from Comet.

 

The other adjustment is closing the loco to tender connection, I resorted to a piece of packing in the slot under the cab floor and a brass sleeve on the tender coupling to make things a little tidier.

 

[ianLMS]

I tracked down the origins of the offending chimney. It was from a Jamieson kit which explains a lot. I dont have a suitable chimney in stock so will order one in along with a few other spares i need.

 

I agree about the cylinders. I do have a Comet set so might have a go at replacing them while i await the new chimney!

I have made a new connecting bar for the tender and will adjust once i know it goes around the layout without snagging. 

[ianLMS]

Does this look right?

 

https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/4-10403

 

Alan Gibson only show the tall variety, not the Intermediate chimney. 247 Developments just say "Jubilee" so its hard to know which one it is out of the types fitted. Interestingly, the Alan Gibson Jubilee kit i have has a short and Int chimney in the kit. As i am using that for "Mars", i am reluctant to steal the chimney as that needs and intermediate one as well. 

[Flying Pig]

13 minutes ago, ianLMS said:

Does this look right?

 

https://www.phoenix-paints.co.uk/products/4-10403

 

Alan Gibson only show the tall variety, not the Intermediate chimney. 247 Developments just say "Jubilee" so its hard to know which one it is out of the types fitted. Interestingly, the Alan Gibson Jubilee kit i have has a short and Int chimney in the kit. As i am using that for "Mars", i am reluctant to steal the chimney as that needs and intermediate one as well. 

 

Much nicer profile. I confess ignorance regarding different heights of chimney on Jubilees.

[ianLMS]

Ordered it and will see what it looks like when it arrives. 

[ianLMS]

2 hours ago, Flying Pig said:

 

That's a pretty comprehensive list.  The only addition I can think of from when I detailed my original Mainline 5690 about forty years ago, is that I drilled blind holes to represent the washout plugs on top of the boiler.  That was based on a photo in, I think, Haresnape's Stanier Locomotives.

 

 

 

Are you referring to the holes just behind the dome? 

 

 

[Flying Pig]

4 minutes ago, ianLMS said:

Are you referring to the holes just behind the dome? 

 

 

 

Yes.  There's another pair right at the front of the boiler in some photos but it seems to vary.

[ianLMS]

The front ones appear to be on the model behind the first boiler band

[ianLMS]

On 19/01/2023 at 13:04, sjp23480 said:

I think the Bachmann cylinders look a bit puny, but I have not had the courage to try to replace them with something more beefy from Comet.

 

 

 

 

A quick comparison just shows how puny the Bachmann ones are against the drawing and the Comet one. Have spent the weekend fettling and coming up with a way of securely mounting the Comet ones. Still a little to do to get them in the right position.

 

 

[sjp23480]

1 hour ago, ianLMS said:

 

A quick comparison just shows how puny the Bachmann ones are against the drawing and the Comet one. Have spent the weekend fettling and coming up with a way of securely mounting the Comet ones. Still a little to do to get them in the right position.

 

 

Ian,

 

Very interested to see how you will mount the cylinders.

 

On Courageous the cylinders are mounted on the split chassis casting so I have left well alone.

 

Steve

[cypherman]

Hi, Might I suggest that you put pick ups on the main wheels. It is not difficult as the plastic keeper plate on the chassis lends it self to this as it is none conductive. I have experimented doing this on several Mainline and Bachmann 4mts. That way you can keep the axel bearings well lubricated and stop the excessive wear that happens to the pick up points on the chassis. Plus have better pick ups. As you see from the picture they are not too intrusive.

 

 

Edited January 23, 2023 by cypherman

[ianLMS]

3 hours ago, sjp23480 said:

Ian,

 

Very interested to see how you will mount the cylinders.

 

On Courageous the cylinders are mounted on the split chassis casting so I have left well alone.

 

Steve

The cylinders arent too difficult to remove. They are just pushed onto the cast block. Mine came off with a little help from a screwdriver and a wiggle. The slide bars are one piece and are retained by 2 tiny screws. The slide bars are brass so i retained them and fitted them to the Comet cylinder block. The slots in the Comet cylinder frame and plates needed rifling out to fit the sliders in. I parted the cylinders from their stretcher on the sprue so they are two seperate elements as they wont fit accross the Mainline chassis. After trimming down, fettling and several fitting attempts, i added a brass plate to the top of the cylinder frame and soldered it square. I then found the best position on the original chassis cylinder mounting block and drilled a hole all the way through for a 10ba screw and nut. A bit of reaming required for the footplate to fit flush but it works. Just need to mirror on other side and do a full test run at various speeds before i will be happy and will take pics for you. 

Edited January 23, 2023 by ianLMS
Spelling

[ianLMS]

Test running after mounting the cylinders. 10ba bolt and nut but you need 2 to stop the cylinder turning inwards

 

 

[ianLMS]

The cheesehead bolts are too thick and would require me to remove pretty much the whole thickness of the footplate for the body to sit level so ordered some countersunk screws. Should be here later this week

 

 

[ianLMS]

Also fitted new handrails and steam ejector pipe while i wait fir the chimney. Excuse the messy workbench!

 

[sjp23480]

19 hours ago, ianLMS said:

The cheesehead bolts are too thick and would require me to remove pretty much the whole thickness of the footplate for the body to sit level so ordered some countersunk screws. Should be here later this week

 

 

Ian,

 

I am experimenting with using the lugs on the chassis by cutting down the old cylinders and epoxying them inside the Comet ones. 

 

A test fit looked good but as I am not at home I can't post an image.

 

The only question is whether the epoxy will hold the remaining Bachmann cylinder moulding to the white metal cylinder casting. 

 

Will try to post pics at the weekend.

[ianLMS]

21 minutes ago, sjp23480 said:

Ian,

 

I am experimenting with using the lugs on the chassis by cutting down the old cylinders and epoxying them inside the Comet ones. 

 

A test fit looked good but as I am not at home I can't post an image.

 

The only question is whether the epoxy will hold the remaining Bachmann cylinder moulding to the white metal cylinder casting. 

 

Will try to post pics at the weekend.

That sounds like a good plan. I toyed with soldering or glueing a tube in the cylinder but chose the top plate instead. Look forward to seeing your pics!

[ianLMS]

JE Chimney arrived from Phoenix. I think this looks a lot better than the previous one!

 

Countersunk screws should hopefully arrive by the weekend. Should be ready to prime and paint after that!!

 

 

[sjp23480]

@ianLMS I managed to take some pictures, not sure if they will help but here goes.

 

Cutting the original Bachmann cylinder block along the red lines leaves a rectangular section with the locating hole.

 

 

This will be epoxyed to the Comet cylinder casting.

 

The completed assembly can then be pushed back onto the split chassis block. The plastic will insulate the Comet cylinders from accidental shorts to the chassis block.

 

Mocked up, the cylinders mount flush to the running plate, with some judicious filing. 

 

 

They do protrude a little wider than I would like.  A bit more filing of the plastic should help improve things. 

 

Steve

[ianLMS]

Very good idea. The cylinders are slightly wider on the prototype as well looking at the drawings so it should work ok. The csk screws arrived and it looks much better and tightening them up stops the cylinders moving so i am happy with the result. Will prime all the parts over the weekend. Good luck with your build!!

[ianLMS]

No pics yet but i have been lining and numbering the loco while i wait for the nameplate to arrive from Fox.  I added in a small section of brass tube inside the cylinder casing which helps hold the cylinders in place with the screw.

[ianLMS]

One completed Mainline Jubilee. Lining are Fox for the loco and a poor job by hand using a bow pen on the tender. Numbering is Modelmaster decals on the loco and Fox letters on the tender. Much prefer the Fox ones as there is no film to worry about. Windows are microscope slide covers suitably cut and filed to shape with diamond files. I lost one of the original safety valves so had to use a pair of hex ones from my spares tub. All finished off with a spray of Alclad II matt varnish.