Help with telegraph and electricity pole heights

[TimberValleyRailway]

Hi all,

 

Hopefully this is in the right place. I model modern image Firstgroup GWR and am looking to include telegraph poles and electricity poles on my layout.

 

Could it be possible please to offer me some advice on different BT telegraph pole heights and locations as well as heights of National Grid poles (the ones with three cables, not pylons) and how the arrangement of them?

 

As you can tell I know nothing in this area so any advice is appreciated.

 

Thank you and best wishes

[DCMarvel]

This is a typical power line in Cumbria, roughly 4 pickup trucks high! Power lines rarely cross main roads they usually drop and go underground but do sometimes cross single track lanes when connecting to properties. Lineside telephone lines are about the same as power lines.

BT telephone street poles seem to vary depending on the height of surrounding properties but typically about 25% taller than power lines. I can see one outside my window now and it is at least chimney pot height of the surrounding houses, all the cables drop considerably to gutter height.

[Paul H Vigor]

5 hours ago, TimberValleyRailway said:

Hi all,

 

Hopefully this is in the right place. I model modern image Firstgroup GWR and am looking to include telegraph poles and electricity poles on my layout.

 

Could it be possible please to offer me some advice on different BT telegraph pole heights and locations as well as heights of National Grid poles (the ones with three cables, not pylons) and how the arrangement of them?

 

As you can tell I know nothing in this area so any advice is appreciated.

 

Thank you and best wishes

'Is there a pole-spotter in the house?' 😎⚡☎️

[Dave John]

Yes there is;

 

https://www.telegraphpoleappreciationsociety.org

 

A very useful resource. 

[Michael Hodgson]

Traditional telegraph poles along the railway line these days are pretty rare; you'll still find BT ones used for distributing BT consumer lines to some houses, height often up to the eaves of a two-storey house, so they are more general street scenery rather than features of the modern railway.

 

The wooden electricity poles carry one wire for each of the three phases of AC, and again tend to be mainly for local end-user distribution in rural areas - farms, isolated cottages etc., the people who complain they've got power cuts every time there's a storm.

 

I think road vehicles normally have to be under 15', so you need to be higher than that when crossing a road, and a safety margin, allowing for sagging in warm weather.  I think perhaps 60-70 yards spacing for telegraph, perhaps slightly more for power.

 

Old thread here

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/24199-how-far-between-telegraph-poles/

 

[Reorte]

23 hours ago, Michael Hodgson said:

The wooden electricity poles carry one wire for each of the three phases of AC, and again tend to be mainly for local end-user distribution in rural areas - farms, isolated cottages etc., the people who complain they've got power cuts every time there's a storm.

Often (but not always) because they've been a bit lax in keeping trees away from them. Knocked on my door over a year ago to ask for an OK to cut some back where the wire goes over my garden, haven't done anything yet. One of them's quite a large branch over the wire, and my garden. Awkward location, would cost a lot to get a tree surgeon to do, the tree's an ash with dieback, I really, really want the leccy people to do that one before it falls on me, so I don't have to pay!

[Michael Hodgson]

4 minutes ago, Reorte said:

One of them's quite a large branch over the wire, and my garden. Awkward location, would cost a lot to get a tree surgeon to do, the tree's an ash with dieback, I really, really want the leccy people to do that one before it falls on me, so I don't have to pay!

That raises a legal question - if it's in your garden and falls over taking out their wire, are you liable for their repairs?

If it outside your property overhanging yours, I suppose you're entitled to cut off the overhanging bit, but that could be dangerous with this power line nearby.

Much better if they do the job for you, but I think I'd be digging out the small print on my insurance.

 

[Reorte]

9 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

That raises a legal question - if it's in your garden and falls over taking out their wire, are you liable for their repairs?

If it outside your property overhanging yours, I suppose you're entitled to cut off the overhanging bit, but that could be dangerous with this power line nearby.

Much better if they do the job for you, but I think I'd be digging out the small print on my insurance.

The tree itself is outside of my garden. Well, probably. It's not entirely clear (the fence is inside the actual boundary, because the ground's dropping away steeply there so the fence goes where it's possible to make a garden, rather than right at the edge). Who actually owns the land on the other side of it is a bit of an unknown.

 

Cutting off that branch would be rather outside something I was prepared to try myself even without the power line there. Leave that one to the professionals!

 

Since they've turned up asking permission to cut stuff back I assume that means they're actually responsible for it (I guess that could be turned on me if I refused permission), but going on such assumptions could end badly. Some Googling suggests that ultimately I'd be responsible, at least if the tree is on my property. I might have to get in contact with them again.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Reorte

[Michael Hodgson]

8 hours ago, Reorte said:

The tree itself is outside of my garden. Well, probably. It's not entirely clear (the fence is inside the actual boundary, because the ground's dropping away steeply there so the fence goes where it's possible to make a garden, rather than right at the edge). Who actually owns the land on the other side of it is a bit of an unknown.

 

Cutting off that branch would be rather outside something I was prepared to try myself even without the power line there. Leave that one to the professionals!

 

Since they've turned up asking permission to cut stuff back I assume that means they're actually responsible for it (I guess that could be turned on me if I refused permission), but going on such assumptions could end badly. Some Googling suggests that ultimately I'd be responsible, at least if the tree is on my property. I might have to get in contact with them again.

These organistaions are sometimes a bit slow, and the weather could change so I hope they get on with it. 

[Hibelroad]

When I first started work with the electricity board ( early 70s) we had a man with a van who spent all day touring the area looking for trees and bushes to lop before they reached the lines. He did  much of the work himself and his donkey jacket had rather a green appearance due to all the algae and moss off the bark. He has a good working relationship with the hill farmers and spoke their lingo ( like Gerald in Clarksons farm or the farmer in Hot fuzz). As a result we had very few vegetation related faults but I suspect such a job would be seen as an avoidable expense these days. 

[TimberValleyRailway]

Thanks for this info folks, much appreciated!

 

Best wishes

[SM42]

This is one of those situations where that O level trigonometry you never thought worth learning comes into its own 

 

All you need is to be able to get to the bottom of the pole,  a tape measure how far away from it you are standing and a home made device to measure the angle ( a protractor with a plumber line) between the horizontal and a line form your position to the top of the pole and maybe an assistant to read off the angle

 

You can then use the tan function on a calculator  to work out the height. 

 

Andy