ÖBB Eurofima Coach Liveries

[Keith Addenbrooke]

I find Continental Coaching stock liveries fascinating, but the subject gets complicated rather quickly, even if  I restrict my interest to just German, Austrian and Swiss railways.  I have no expertise at all to draw on as I’m afraid it’s now over twenty years since I last travelled on a train in Europe (sorry), so I hope it’s OK to put my questions here:

 

I’ve acquired these Roco ÖBB HO coaches - second hand in excellent condition (full length 1:87 / 303mm)*:

 

 

If I’ve got it right, they are (top to bottom), an Amz, a WRmz, a BDmsz and a Bmz.  

 

My first question is what does the designation mz (or msz) mean?  Is there a handy online reference guide I can look up?

 

My second question concerns the doors on the restaurant car - they look different to those on the other cars.  Is this significant?

 

Age wise, they are a bit earlier than the other items in a small collection I have - these are Epoch IV whereas other items are Epoch V.  I was aware of this when I bought them, but what I’m trying to establish is when they would last have run as a set in this livery?  I note the proposed Roco EC60 Maria - Theresia sets (74043 - 5) all have a mix of this orange and the later red/black livery circa 1989, for example.

 

I’ve managed to find YouTube film from 1989 that shows consists still with quite a few orange coaches, and from 1991 by which time the orange livery has become very rare.  Hardly any of the trains featured in the videos I’ve seen from this period have consists in matching liveries.  A tipping point would therefore seem to be about 1990, but I’m wondering when the red/black started to appear?  If I give myself a generous 20-year window (1986 to 2006**) do I need to include red/black coaches too?

 

Two final questions: model manufacturers often seem to be quite keen on Composite carriages, though they appear to be less common in real life.  Is that a fair comment / observation (I guess the designation would be ABmz ?).

 

And finally, I occasionally come across Austrian coaches in a purple / white livery (Pflatsch logo).  What the story there, I wonder?

 

Does that make sense?  As always, any responses will be much appreciated.  Thanks once again in anticipation, Keith.

 

(* bought through that well known purchasing scheme: “I liked the look of them and the price was good.”

** to allow for the end of the Pflatsch logo and introduction of the ‘written’ ÖBB replacement)

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

The restaurant car has hinged folding doors whereas the others have sliding doors.

 

I think I am right in saying that only the sliding door cars should really be referred to as "Eurofima".

[31A]

27 minutes ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

The restaurant car has hinged folding doors whereas the others have sliding doors.

 

I think I am right in saying that only the sliding door cars should really be referred to as "Eurofima".

 

I think you are right; the restaurant cars that ran with the Eurofima coaches were often (always?) other types of stock painted to match.  The most outrageous were probably the Belgian Railways restaurant cars that I believe were of pre-war origin!

 

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=3014431

 

There's information about the UIC letter code designations for coaches here:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UIC_classification_of_railway_coaches

 

As I read it, for the OBB the secondary letter "m" means four axle coach longer than 24m, and the secondary letter "z" indicates "Power supply from a bus bar" (does that mean a through train wire in the context?).

 

 

Edited March 16, 2023 by 31A
Supplementary information

[Mike at C&M]

The Austrian Eurofima coaches first started to appear in 1976 with a few hundred coaches being built up until 1980. These all carried the orange Eurofima livery, which are shown on your models. 

    The variants built were 2nd class (Bmz, 180 examples), 1st class (Amz, 25 examples) 1st/2nd class composite (ABmz, 45 examples) and restaurant (WRmz, 10 examples). All these were air-conditioned, and had the full depth single window panes.

   Further examples were built with drop windows, as shown on the brake 2nd coach in your photograph above. These were 2nd class (Bmz, 105 examples) and Luggage 2nd (BDmpsz, 15 examples - interestingly, these were for internal Austrian services only, and not for international use).

 

A complete train of OBB Eurofima stock passes through Jenbach behind 1044.68 in July 1981

 

Coaching stock on the international express "Mozart" which ran from Paris Est to Wien Westbahnhof. The picture was taken in August 1980 in Munchen Hbf. As well as the Austrian Eurofimas, the coach rake included a DB "Quick Pick" in blue/ivory (shown here) as well as a number of SNCF Corail coaches. The train arrived from Stuttgart with a DB Class 111 on the front, with an OBB 1044 being put on the other end of the train to rake it forward to Vienna, after reversal in Munchen.

 

One of the 10 'WRmz' Eurofima restaurant cars seen on a Wien Westbahnhof to Bregenz working at Innsbruck Hbf. in 1982

 

My first sight of the new "rot/umbragrau" livery was in 1987, and obviously it took time for all the Eurofima coaches to be painted into these new colours. If you are modelling from 1990 onwards, you will need to look at the red/grey livery, but there will have been rakes in mixed liveries for several years after that.

 

My first red/Umbragrau coach is seen at Tarvisio Centrale in summer 1987. Note that there are several orange liveried coaches within the rake, as well as an FS (Italian) restaurant car. The train was a Wien Sudbahnhof to Roma Centrale express, and was changing motive power from 1044.70 to an Italian E656, as the voltage changes from 15kV a.c to 3kv d.c.. Tarvisio Centrale is no longer served, as a new high speed line has been built to bypass almost all the old Pontebana route.

 

   My next visit to Austria was in 2002, and I do not recall seeing any orange liveried coaches then.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Thank you to @Joseph_Pestell, @31A and @Mike at C&M for the quick responses - helpful and informative as always.

 

The UIC classifications I was pointed to by @31A do confirm the point made by @Joseph_Pestell that Eurofima coaches should have sliding doors for the ‘z’ designation.  

 

At the same time however, manufacturers seemed to be consistently calling folding door restaurant cars “Eurofima” so I’ve had another look at mine under magnification:

 

 

It is marked WRmz, but has folding doors, which is interesting.

 

Thanks to @Mike at C&M for the photos - always informative.  This is a photo of the same end of my WRmz as Mike’s 1982 Innsbruck picture above:

 

 

Mine looks to have different, drop windows (an observation, not something I’ll  worry about).  I also agree with Mike’s dating of the repaint into red / black being in the late 1980s, possibly early 1990s - I might add a red/black car or two if I can: interesting to note the composite coaches were more common than I thought.

 

I think that just leaves the question of the rarer purple / white livery - was it experimental (ie: short lived) or specific for some reason?  Just wondering.  Thanks again, Keith.

 

[Mike at C&M]

The photo at the top of the thread, by Keith, shows 4 out of the 6 types of "Eurofima" coaches modelled by Roco.

 

Roco also do the other two types. The 'ABmz', 1st/2nd composite

And the 'Bmz' 2nd class, with the drop windows. The main difference between the two styles of 'Bmz' is very noticeable by looking at the windows when the 2 coaches are next to each other in a rake.

 

Definitely one of my favourite trains on Bayerndorf, a complete set of the orange Eurofimas with a 1044 at the front.

 

 

[Mike at C&M]

My only knowledge of a purple/white livery was a brief experiment, which I think took place on the then new Inlandreisezugwagen in the early 1980s. I never saw it, and all the Inlandreisezugwagen I saw were in the traditional 'Jaffa' red/ivory livery.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

28 minutes ago, Mike at C&M said:

The photo at the top of the thread, by Keith, shows 4 out of the 6 types of "Eurofima" coaches modelled by Roco.

 

Roco also do the other two types. The 'ABmz', 1st/2nd composite

And the 'Bmz' 2nd class, with the drop windows. The main difference between the two styles of 'Bmz' is very noticeable by looking at the windows when the 2 coaches are next to each other in a rake.

 

Definitely one of my favourite trains on Bayerndorf, a complete set of the orange Eurofimas with a 1044 at the front.

 

 

Thanks for the link to your layout thread.  Looks great.  I’ll have a read through when I get a chance - and have signed up to follow your exploits.  Thanks too for the info on the purple / white, which would explain why I’ve not found much.  Have a good weekend, Keith.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Further to @Mike at C&M’s post on Friday, I can only find one coach that was painted in the experimental purple / white livery (there may have been more I’ve not found of course): it appears it was a blend of the local (blue) and long distance liveries.  I think it is modelled by Roco in HO as 44850.2 - a Bmpz Inlandreisezugwagen.  I have a later date of c. 1990 for the livery, but it was later repainted in the conventional colours anyway.  Others may well know a lot more of course.

 

A final note - having another look at my own coaches, the Amz and Bmz are actually marked Amoz and Bmoz:

 

 

From what I’ve learned, the ‘o’ meant ‘without steam heating’ - a required designation that was dropped in the 1980s as no longer needed.  I don’t know if this means my coaches are from earlier in Epoch IV or if they were never repainted.

 

A useful website I’ve found for Roco HO locos and coaches incidentally is “Helmut Kern Modellbahn” (bahn.hfkern.de).  It doesn’t have the latest releases by the look of it, so may no longer be kept up to date, but has helped me find out more about the model options.  Just worth mentioning for future reference in case it helps.

 

Thanks to all - happy to say that these coaches have continued to grow on me as I’ve found out more.  I had planned to focus on American HO after stepping back from N-Scale, but the European interest is still strong.  Take care, Keith.

 

 

[Gordonwis]

Regarding the restaurant car, I believe that a coach without plug doors can not be a 'Eurofima'. Like SBB in Switzerland which had some 'like Eurofima' coaches, I believe the OBB WR to be in the 'like Eurofima' category, ie of type UIC-Z, which is the dimensions and basic design used in the construction of the Eurofima stock.

 

German wikipedia has a comprehensive, and I believe pretty accurate page on Eurofima stock. The section headed OBB Varianten - is the most useful section for this discussion 

 

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofima-Wagen

 

In the meantime Keith, the orange livery is best used for a scene in the 1980s 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Gordonwis

[Keith Addenbrooke]

7 hours ago, Gordonwis said:

Regarding the restaurant car, I believe that a coach without plug doors can not be a 'Eurofima'. Like SBB in Switzerland which had some 'like Eurofima' coaches, I believe the OBB WR to be in the 'like Eurofima' category, ie of type UIC-Z, which is the dimensions and basic design used in the construction of the Eurofima stock.

 

German wikipedia has a comprehensive, and I believe pretty accurate page on Eurofima stock. The section headed OBB Varianten - is the most useful section for this discussion 

 

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurofima-Wagen

 

In the meantime Keith, the orange livery is best used for a scene in the 1980s 

Thank you - very useful.  As I said in my opening post, I do find all this fascinating, Keith.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Going back to my original photo then, I think I can now explain the cars I have in more detail:

 

 

The top and bottom coaches are original ÖBB Eurofima coaches:

 

The first class coach is one of 25 Amoz coaches delivered in 1977, designated 19-71.0

The second class coach is one of 75 Bmoz coaches also delivered in 1977 and designated 21-71.0

 

The restaurant car second from the top is one of five 88-70.1 coaches with folding doors delivered as part of a later batch for the Transalpin service.  

 

The BDmsz 2nd / baggage car third from top is from a later batch (1982) designated 82-70.0

 

Interestingly, I note the BDmsz has ‘51’ as the first two digits of the number, whereas the other three all have ‘61’.  If I’ve got my facts right, ‘51’ is a passenger car that can be available for international use (though according to Mike at C&M above were used internally), while ‘61’ is the Eurocity number.

 

The second two digits of the numbers all carry ‘81’ as the country code for Austria. 

 

A key difference not previously covered is the different bogie styles.  I’m not an expert, but I think it may be as follows:

 

 

The top and bottom original coaches with drop centre bogies were from Fiat, while I think the later two coaches have SGP bogies (Simmering-Graz-Pauker).  As always, I’m happy to be corrected where my understanding / translation is incorrect.

 

As I can’t read the lettering at normal viewing distance, this is simply research out of interest (I do like the large 1st or 2nd class numbers).  Hope it’s of interest, Keith.

 

Edited March 21, 2023 by Keith Addenbrooke
Clarification

[Gordonwis]

30 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

 

 

Interestingly, I note the BDmsz has ‘51’ as the first two digits of the number, whereas the other three all have ‘61’.  If I’ve got my facts right, ‘51’ is a passenger car that can be available for international use (though according to Mike at C&M above were used internally), while ‘61’ is the Eurocity number.

 

 

The first two digits of the UIC coach codes is the interoperability code. And of course a coach with international (51) interoperability can be used internally for many months before making an odd foray or two into another country

 

Yes, quite a subtle difference between 51 and 61. 51 was the general 'can cross RIC borders' interoperability code. 61 seems to have come later 

 

Code list here:

 

http://www.railfaneurope.net/misc/uicnum.html

 

 

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Thank you for all the guidance and advice as always.  I’ve now added a fifth coach to complete my set:

 

 

This is one of the ABmz coaches designated 30-70.0.  45 of these were made (see posts above from @Mike at C&M).  As I understand it, they were part of the original plan, but delivered starting a year later in 1978.  They have the SGP bogies.

 

The 30-70 designation was for coaches with 10 compartments (or 20/21 rows) and engineered to run at 160km/h.  These had 4 first and 6 second Class, modelled with purple seats (1st Class) and blue (2nd Class), which you can just see in this photo:

 

I have no information on when / which coaches were first repainted in the red and black livery, but I can at least give the appearance of a mixed consist to edge my time period forwards a bit if I marshall this one into the rake.

 

At least some ABmz coaches were later rebuilt for Business class, but I think this was later, in the early 2000s

 

My budget is now frozen till I’ve built a layout (any layout 😀), so this round of buying (I ordered some other items too) will be all for now anyway.  Hope this is of interest.  As always, please correct any errors.  Thanks, Keith.
 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Keith Addenbrooke

[Claude_Dreyfus]

I have long had a liking for these carriages, ever since I first saw these on a holiday back in 1984.

 

Being used to blue and grey carriages, seeing the various carriages in Austria was definitely a change of scene - particularly when we had a day out to Innsbruck and I first saw the Eurofima carriages...quite an impression on a young child (I was six at the time).

 

A couple of these carriages can be seen in this picture upon arrival at Innsbruck (on a train from Seefeld) ironically aboard a DB 'ivory and ocean blue' carriage. My father had a rake of N gauge Roco Eurofima at about this time and they were my favourite carriages of his, obtaining them at about the same time as this holiday - I suspect inspired by the trip!

 

I too have been inspired, but had to wait a further 39 years until I could scratch that itch!

 

 

 Not complete by any means, but a decent rake to start with; a restaurant car and probably another 2 class will be added in due course...

[Stefan88]

Eurofima strictly speaking only refers to the original batch of coaches ordered by the Austrian, French, German, Italian and Swiss national railway companies, which for Austria was 25 1st class and 75 2nd class coaches as mentioned somewhere above.

 

Subsequently various series of coaches were built by SGP for the ÖBB. These look the same but technically aren't Eurofima. The UIC classification is Z1 and Z2 depending on whether they have aircon or not (half sliding windows for non-aircon). All of them were international coaches, long numbers starting with 51 for non-aircon and 61 for aircon. Generally the non-aircon coaches were only for 160km/h, aircon versions had different bogies that determined whether they were rated for 160km/h or 200km/h.

 

All of the non-aircon coaches had sliding plugging doors like the original Eurofima batch. The first SGP 2nd class aircon coaches and the restaurant coaches had folding doors, later batches of regular seating coaches (including all mixed 1st/2nd) had the sliding plugging doors.

 

The red/grey livery as mentioned first appeared in 1987 and was applied quickly, so from 1990-1995 you would likely only see the odd coach or 2 in a rake in the old orange livery. Some older express coaches, i.e. UIC type X coaches (models by RailTop and Jägerndorfer) continued to be used in orange livery up to the mid to late 90's though not in international services beyond around 1993, most had been repainted in to simplified jaffa livery (sparlack) by then.

 

The purple/light grey coach mentioned was a domestic coach of a different type (Inlandsreisezugwagen or colloquially lange Schlieren), these were often mixed in with Eurofima/UIC type Z coaches for domestic intercity services. They were numbered starting with 50 meaning domestic only, though I'd imagine some limited use in to Germany at the very least would have happened.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Thank you @Stefan88, some useful information.  I appreciate the confirmation that the red / black livery was introduced quickly from 1987 - it fits with my observations so it is helpful to know they’re correct.

 

For anyone who may be interested (particularly in the UK), I notice Gaugemaster have just taken into stock three different Roco coach packs with both orange and red / black HO coaches for the ÖBB EC60 Maria Theresia (1989), listed as follows:

 

Roco 74043 Set 1: red / black Bmz, orange Bmz and orange BDmsz (£180)

Roco 74044 Set 2: orange Amz, orange Bmz and red / black dining coach WRmz (£180)
Roco 74045 Set 3: red / black Amz and orange Bmz (£120)

I don’t need any more, but nice to see they’ve been released.  Have a good weekend, Keith.

 

Edit (10th May 2023): The following YouTube video in German is an unboxing of the 74043 set: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXOI4iZPYRg&t=29s

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by Keith Addenbrooke
Add YouTube link

[Stefan88]

For Roco coaches you're better off picking them up second hand, the prices they're charging for what are now unchanged 40 year old models is pretty excessive. The prices are pretty much what ACME were charging until they too hiked their prices this year, but for significantly more detailed models.

 

LS Models make the nicest Eurofima coaches, but they make small batches and haven't done anything except the most recent liveries for some time now. I've been lucky enough to pick up a 1st in orange and a 1st and a 2nd in red/grey over the years, the level of detail is ridiculous and justifies fitting interior lighting just to see it all clearly.

 

 

 

ACME are not far behind, though the quality isn't as good as LS (occasional slight glue marks/excess seepage, bogies used to be just moulded grey and not painted), but they seem to make larger batches, in a greater variety of liveries and more frequently. They also do the SGP coaches with folding doors, non-airconditioned coaches, mixed 1st/2nd, full luggage coaches (previously only available from Reckzügel and Schwaiger) and the unique SGP aircon first class coach built in the 70s before the Eurofima coaches. After several years of seemingly just doing orange and more recent two tone grey/red roof liveries they're now bringing out more Eurofima(ish) coaches in red/grey - both in a 5 coach set with a CSD restaurant coach as EC 8 Antonin Dvorak and at some point individual coaches.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here are some of the SGP 1st prototype that I opened up for some reason when I got it:

 

 

 

 

That leaves Roco, which for models developed in the early 1980s still hold up pretty well externally, but RRP's as mentioned before are rather excessive now. Roco are the only one making the half-luggage and restaurant variants.

 

Piko also entered the market with their own versions recently, priced at the same level as ACME, but nowhere near as good. They are a bit more detailed externally than the Roco models, but interiors are also just a single piece moulding in a single colour. I picked up a couple on ebay in orange a couple of years ago, I paid £30 each but I wouldn't pay any more than that, certainly not their exorbitant RRP (€70+!!!).

Edited May 3, 2023 by Stefan88

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Thank you @Stefan88 - very informative and some good pictures to help too.  My next step is to see if I can plan a simple scenic layout for the space I have, so I can see some trains run.  Keith.

[Keith Addenbrooke]

After much careful thought I've decided to offer my four orange livery coaches for sale, initially via RMwb classifieds:

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/classifieds/item/1668-set-of-four-full-length-ho-roco-obb-coaches-in-orange-express-livery/

 

With all my other rolling stock and locomotives being liveried for Epoch V, these start to look out of place as I (finally / hopefully) move towards layout ideas.  It therefore makes sense to trade them on to raise funds for alternatives in newer liveries.  Would be happy to sell them on to another RMweb member if anyone is interested, Keith. 

 

Edit: please note, as of 18th July I’ve reduced the asking price to facilitate a sale.  Thanks.

 

Pleased to say that the coaches sold quickly through RMweb classifieds and are now on their way to a fellow RMweb member who has a good collection of Continental models, Keith.

 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Keith Addenbrooke
19th July 2023 - Sold