Goodnight Sweetheart Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 Good morning, I’m about to start a new layout using peco OO bullhead track and points do I need to insulate the points as you would do with electro frog points? I’m using DCC control if that makes ant difference. Many thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
norman Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 Yes insulate the frog from the rest of the track work and provide a separate switchable power supply to the frog using either a frog juicer, or a micro switch linked to the movement of the points. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted March 26, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Goodnight Sweetheart said: Good morning, I’m about to start a new layout using peco OO bullhead track and points do I need to insulate the points as you would do with electro frog points? I’m using DCC control if that makes ant difference. Many thanks 1 hour ago, norman said: Yes insulate the frog from the rest of the track work and provide a separate switchable power supply to the frog using either a frog juicer, or a micro switch linked to the movement of the points. No! Bullhead turnouts are of "Unifrog" design, meaning that they do not perform any electrical switching by themselves. The tiny V of the frog is isolated and all the rest of the rails, including the frog rails, are permanently wired. If you want the frog to have power, to improve power collection for locos, then you have to connect it to an external switch, most commonly as part of the turnout motor. So if the turnout routes to two sidings and you use metal rail joiners the sidings will both be powered whichever way the turnout is set. This is perfect for DCC. A crossover between two running lines does not need insulating joiners either, unless the running lines are in different power districts (or in DC terms in different sections). Note that Peco do not make insulating Bullhead rail joiners... Edited March 26, 2023 by Harlequin 2 4 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lacathedrale Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 Agreed 100% with Harlequin. I had initially planned for traditional breaks, but when I had the points to hand and tried them out with regular joiners I was pleasantly surprised. I have run a terrier over the Vee and there wasn't even the slightest hint of a stutter because the insulated section is really that small. I have provisioned for the dropper wires, but I'm not expecting to need to use them. I guess we should point out that the regular insulated rail joiners work fine with the bulkhead rail, and presumably you will still want to use them where you deliberately want electrical block breaks, or sections for occupation detection. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodnight Sweetheart Posted March 26, 2023 Author Share Posted March 26, 2023 Fantastic thank you guys, so just so I’m clear you can lay the points as supplied and they’ll work without issue on DCC? Regards 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 I asked pretty much the same recently , they will do as they are be fine for DCC. If you are not powering the frog , just make sure any short wheelbase loco will be fine over it . I used large radius last layout , but powered frog via cobalt dcc motors , this time i can't power them so using as dead frog and therefore i'm using medium radius as i think the frog is shorter for my 08 just in case 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rob D2 Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 Ha, it isn't actually shorter but the overall point is which is what i need as my layout is only 2 xBQ floating shelves long Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhar Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 I would prepare a dropper wire from the frog as @Lacathedrale suggests just in case four-coupled locos stutter, easier to do off-layout rather than after installation. You don't need to connect it if all is well, but you just need an unexpected undulation or a dodgy pick-up on the loco for mishaps to appear, That said, if you're fitting stay-alives you'd probably be completely fine. Alan 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Harlequin Posted March 26, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2023 (edited) 21 hours ago, Goodnight Sweetheart said: Fantastic thank you guys, so just so I’m clear you can lay the points as supplied and they’ll work without issue on DCC? Regards Yes, nothing to change and you can use metal rail joiners everywhere if you're not implementing block detection or power districts. Just take the frog dropper wire through the baseboards and then you can choose whether to wire it up or not later. Edited March 27, 2023 by Harlequin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodnight Sweetheart Posted March 26, 2023 Author Share Posted March 26, 2023 3 minutes ago, Harlequin said: Yes, if you're not implementing block detection. Just take the frog dropper wire through the baseboards and then you can choose whether to wire it up or not later. That was my plan, prepare the board for frog juicing etc just in case. Thank you all for your help, it’s been extremely helpful indeed ! Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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