Help in DoubleCad XT for etching

[woodbine]

First attempt in Doublecad XT at drawing for an etch, and I'm stuck (for several days now) on how to get my text in solid red to show up when I have a solid black hatch/fill. It doesn't matter which layer I put it on nor at what stage I add the fill, the red text disappears from view. Am I using the "wrong" sort of text or what?

[Jeremy Cumberland]

I haven't used Doublecad XT, but I expect it is like other programs and has a draw order feature. You ought to be able to select the hatch and then use Draw Order > Send to Back or something similar.

 

In AutoCAD, new objects are placed at the front, so if you make the hatch first and then add the text, the text should appear in front of the hatch automatically.

 

In any case, I suggest you use separate layers for black, red, blue and white, and a different layer for outlines, which you can then freeze or turn off.

[woodbine]

Thanks J, solved at last. I'd suspected that Draw Order was involved, but the 550 page PDF only has two pretty vague references to 'draw order' and for two days I couldn't locate how to do it. I was on the point of defenestration, but decided to have another look at the 'layers' dialogue box.

One of the columns is called simply 'or' and each layer is by default labeled '0'. I changed the '0' to '1' in my text layer and Hey Presto! --- 'or' stands for 'order'. Doh!

So searching for 'Order' fetches 66 references as against the meagre 2 for 'Draw Order'.

I am following the PPD guides eventually, but first I needed to get the basic workings of Doublecad XT in hand. This was the one holding me at level 1 so I can get on with turning the drawing into a useable file when I understand a little more of the PPD requirements. I think I may change the title of the thread to a more general help request.

[woodbine]

On 03/05/2023 at 15:36, Jeremy Cumberland said:

In any case, I suggest you use separate layers for black, red, blue and white, and a different layer for outlines, which you can then freeze or turn off.

I'm back on this after a couple of weeks absence DIY'ing and family stuff.

I've got all the parts individually drawn out in their final dimensions and I'm ready to assemble them onto the sheet, but I'd like to get the layers clear in my head.

I don't mind if I use more layers than strictly necessary if understanding them helps me in future projects.

PPD offer the following :-

"Full Thickness Metal - black

Halfetch Back - blue

Halfetch Front - red

Outline Parts  - magenta

Outline Sheet - magenta

Tags - black

Text - red

Include a mm scale"

Presumably that reflects the drawing order.

 

I have it in mind to have Layer 0 as the parts outlines layer (even though DoubleCad won't allow me to call it anything other than "0")

A new layer for the frame and tags outlines. Both these layers drawn in magenta according to PPD.

Then open a new layer called Full Thickness Metal and solid-hatch in black appropriately.

Likewise new layers for Rear solid-hatched in blue, and Front solid-hatched in Red.

All this hatching to be done for the whole sheet including frame and tags. (Why do PPD suggest a separate layer for tags? Is this so that they can be toggled between full thickness or half etched according to preference and brass thickness?)

Does the centimeter/millimeter rule just get inserted on its own layer, off to one side?

And lastly for now, having solved the issue of getting the red text to show up against the black full thickness hatch, how does that get converted to white for the front etching tool?

 

 

[Jeremy Cumberland]

Really you would do better to speak to PPD for answers to these detailed questions.

 

My guess is that the use of magenta for outlines is so that they can be ignored in the etching process. You'll doubtless be drawing all the outlines first, and if PPD want the layer to be called Outline Parts, then I suggest you do exactly that. If you can't rename Layer 0, just leave it empty.

 

I am not sure why PPD suggest that tags be in a separate layer. Perhaps they have experience of people getting tags wrong, and putting tags in their own layer makes it easier for PPD to correct them. Really, tags are just areas of full thickness or halfetch. The only time I use halfetch tags is when edge of the piece is also halfetch, but I think some people use halfetch tags to make them easier to cut.

 

Again, I am not sure why PPD want text in a separate layer rather than just being ordinary halfetch front (or mirrored text and halfedge back), but it might be to make it easier to separate the halfetch text from the full-thickness "background". Also, there are several ways of doing text, and although halfetch front is by far the most common, if you wanted to do, say, full thickness text on a halfetch front background, I expect the etching company could accommodate this, but probably not if you just put the text on the Full Thickness layer and a red rectangle on the Halfetch Front layer.

 

The mm scale is just to make sure that they scale the drawing correctly. It can be outside the area of the sheet, and unless they say otherwise, it can be on one of the outlines layers.

 

Since PPD ask for separate layers, I expect they ignore drawing order (which ought only matter for text, after all - red, blue and black should not overlap at all anywhere else, and red and blue should not butt up against each other either). However, if you submit a separate pdf as well as the dwg file (or whatever file format Doublecad XT uses), then you should try and get the drawing order correct for creating the pdf, with red text in front of black full thickness.

[woodbine]

A further question regarding the text since I have zero knowledge of how these things work. When I try and hatch around the text (which is in red) it merely hatches under it. In order to produce a tool for the front of the sheet the red Front Half Etch layer has to be turned off thereby changing the blue areas to white, but turning off the Text layer makes it disappear altogether. So is the answer simply to simply change the colour of the text to white and leave it switched on? It sounds suspiciously obvious.

[Jeremy Cumberland]

Are you doing your own etching, or getting someone else to do it for you? I have never done my own etching, and I know very little about how you create a mask, but if you require a black print for the mask, as per this thread

and you want the text half etched onto the front of the sheet, then you will create the front mask by:

- turning off the Halfetch Front layer

- changing the Halfetch Back colour to black

- changing the Text colour to whatever the printing program interprets as no colour

- making sure that the Text is in front of whatever is on the Full Thickness layer

 

However, if you are getting someone else to make your etches, you don't have to do any of this. All you need to do is to follow their instructions for creating the drawing file, using the colours and layer names they specify, and if necessary including comments or instructions when you submit the drawing to them.

 

If you also send them a colour pdf print of the drawing file, which I would recommend, then you need to make sure that the text is in front of everything else, and is in the appropriate colour, for the pdf to look correct.

 

1 hour ago, woodbine said:

When I try and hatch around the text (which is in red) it merely hatches under it.

Hatching ignores text. You have a hatch. You have text. You can place the text in front of the hatch, and if you then print this, the hatch behind the text won't be printed, but the text will be printed instead. If you have the hatch in front of the text and then print this, the text won't be printed at all.

 

There is no reason why you could not, for example, have text on the back of the sheet in full thickness letters raised above a half-etched panel. This would mean putting a blue hatch on the Halfetch Back sheet and colouring the text black on the Text sheet, but you would probably need to explain that this is what you wanted to the etching company, to make sure that they interpreted your drawing correctly.