How would I wire this for DCC Please using Electrofrog points?

[signalnorth]

Hi

 

I'm about to 'dabble' in DCC having bought a dcc loco and  a friend of mine having set me up with a control set up . In the plan below, previously in analogue with electrofrog points   I would have wired my new layout as shown , but what changes do I/ Need to make for DCC please ? Thank you

 

 

 

 

[Nigelcliffe]

If it worked for analogue DC, then connect the two wires, turn on and use it.   Really is that simple.    Presumably the "feed 5" is switched by the turnouts which control access to the various sidings.   

 

 

There is a lot of complicated ****** written about wiring.  Fundamentally there is no difference between DC wiring and DCC wiring:  there are two rails (call them "red" and "black") and you need to ensure the correct colour is connected to crossings (frogs) when turnouts are changed.  The same for DC as it is for DCC.    The only difference is DCC doesn't need isolating switches to allow locos to be parked and not move.   

 

[Pete the Elaner]

Good wiring is good for DC & DCC.

I would recommend fitting insulated rail joiners to the frog ends of all turnouts then re-feeding afterwards. For DC, you can choose which sections to switch on & for DCC, just switch them all to on.

I wired a friend's DC layout this way & it ran for years at exhibitions without any issues, including unwanted dead sections. He then donated it to our club & it did its first show as a DCC layout last weekend...flawlessly. Converting it to run on DC or DCC was a simple matter of adding a switch & socket to the control panel.

 

Wiring it this way has 1 drawback: you need more track droppers.

It brings several benefits though:

1. Sections are small so are easy to troubleshoot.

2. You will get less issues - You will never ever get a section feeding through a loop from an unexpected feed halfway around the layout (I have seen this often & the layout builders usually deny there is an issue because they have got used to throwing an unrelated point to allow trains to run).

3. It is an expandable technique: Bigger layouts do not get more complicated; they simply have more feeds from the same supply.

4. If 2 smaller sections need connecting, this can easily be achieved from under the board. If you have less feeds & bigger sections, it is difficult to split them if the track itself is electrically connected.

5. Rail joiners are a weak link. After a rail has been weathered & gets a little older, they can provide a resistance, which is bad. Passing current through less rail joiners (more droppers) reduces this issue.

6. The nickel silver used for rail is a relatively poor conductor compared to copper wire (especially if you use chunky copper wire which you can use if it is below the board & out of sight). This is irrelevant on smaller layouts but can become significant on larger ones & if you've understood this far, you are ready to tackle a larger layout.

[St Enodoc]

3 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

If it worked for analogue DC, then connect the two wires, turn on and use it.   Really is that simple.    Presumably the "feed 5" is switched by the turnouts which control access to the various sidings.   

 

 

There is a lot of complicated ****** written about wiring.  Fundamentally there is no difference between DC wiring and DCC wiring:  there are two rails (call them "red" and "black") and you need to ensure the correct colour is connected to crossings (frogs) when turnouts are changed.  The same for DC as it is for DCC.    The only difference is DCC doesn't need isolating switches to allow locos to be parked and not move.   

 

All correct, of course, Nigel.

 

However, the diagram as drawn wouldn't work for DC either. With the crossover in the middle reversed there will be a short between feeds 1, 3 and/or 4 depending on how the point next to feed 1 is set. The layout needs another isolating gap on the other two tracks leading from that crossover.

 

I'm not sure that the diamond would work as drawn either if it too is electrofrog. There don't seem to be any feeds to its frogs.

 

1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I would recommend fitting insulated rail joiners to the frog ends of all turnouts then re-feeding afterwards.

 

This is sound advice. Build the layout this way and then test it using DC - a 9V battery will do. If that works, then it will work for DCC too.

[signalnorth]

Righteo then , that's great , simpler than I at first thought it would be. The diamond will have a feed - it's feed No 5 on the diagram . Sorry if anyones neck began to hurt looking at that diagram!!!! 

[Steven B]

As mentioned above, you'll need two additional isolators - see red marks in diagram below.

 

Depending on where you wish to park locos with lights on/sound running, you might find adding the additional yellow isolated joints and track feeds useful.

 

Steven B.

[DCB]

 

15 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

If it worked for analogue DC, then connect the two wires, turn on and use it.   Really is that simple.    Presumably the "feed 5" is switched by the turnouts which control access to the various sidings.   

There is a lot of complicated ****** written about wiring.  Fundamentally there is no difference between DC wiring and DCC wiring:  there are two rails (call them "red" and "black") and you need to ensure the correct colour is connected to crossings (frogs) when turnouts are changed.  The same for DC as it is for DCC.    The only difference is DCC doesn't need isolating switches to allow locos to be parked and not move.   

 

Agree as far as it goes,  apart from bargain basement DCC  DCC and indeed lighted stock and multiple locos on 1 train on DC will cause issues if the power is taken by point blades with no or dirty wiper contacts  and by badly fitted fishplates. My 2 amp H0 DC with 5 loco lash ups has these issues with fishplates etc  just like"DCC".    Stephen B's solution would help but only if the feeds are switched sections, which can be isolated if something goes wrong, and it will believe me. if not then fault finding could be an issue.
I would be inclined to stick a 1 amp overload cut out between DCC output and track...  Old 1960s TRiang circuit controllers cut outs are excellent, Too expensive for today,