Converting a Farish J94 Austerity - some questions

[Geordie Exile]

Hi All

 

I've searched the forum and to my surprise can't find a thread already asking these questions.  If it's just me looking but not seeing, please point me in the right direction.  If it's not all in one place, I thought a thread might be useful to other conversion beginners like me.

 

I've found the list of things I'll need on the Association website, but have ended up with more questions than answers.  I'll go through the "Required Parts List" (found here) item-by-item with my questions/comments, and would really appreciate your help.

 

Required Parts List

Chassis etch

• 3-640 (Farish Austerity/LNER J94: Etched N/S)
• Currently TOS from Shop 3 😒

Motor

• 3-241 (12V Coreless: 6 x 15mm: 0.8mm shaft)

Association frame spacer PCB

• 3-156 (Frame Spacer: 150mm long x 6.4mm wide x 1.6mm: PCB)
• or???
• 3-157 (Frame Spacer: 150mm long x 7.0mm wide x 1.6mm: PCB)
• For future reference, how will I know?

Loco wheels (see table below)

• 3-006 (Mk5: 8.5mm)

6 x crankpins

• 3-125 (Flanged: 0.5mm dia: 0.75mm Base for Mk6 and later Wheels: Turned Brass)
• or???
• 3-126 (Long: 0.5mm dia: Turned Brass)
• I assume it's the latter, as the only 8.5mm wheels I can find are Mk5, which - obviously? - predates "Mk6 and later"

Crankpin washers

• 3-127 (0.6mm Bore: Etched N/S)

30:1 worm set with 1.5mm bore worm.

• Is this 3-352 (Gearbox Block: 100DP 30:1: Machined Brass)? If so, the instructions PDF (here) for this refers to additional parts which I guess covers the "1.5mm bore worm" and the next two items (gear and axle muffs).
• 3-361 (Worm: 100DP: 1.5mm Bore: Acetal)

Gear muffs

• 3-101 (Muff: 1/8" OD: Imperial Gears: Acetal)

Axle muffs

• 3-100 (Muff: 1/8" OD: Ungeared Wheels: Acetal)

Spur gears as appropriate (see the arrangement diagram for the specific loco)

• Where do I find this diagram?  Is it an Association thing? 

0.3mm brass or nickel silver rod

• I'd have headed straight to Eileen's Emporium for this, but I understand we've lost this wonderful asset.  Any favourite alternatives (in terms of supplier or indeed material)?

 

The Milled Gearbox Block instructions refer to a "30T 100DP Skew Gear".  Is this 3-367 (Skew Cut Gear: 100DP: 30T: 1/8" Bore: Brass). Should it be included in the Required Parts List?

 

I'd very much appreciate any pointers.  If we end up with lots of separate answers, that's fine: I'll combine them all into a final post and who knows, another newbie like me might stumble upon it.  I've even included "Farish", "J94" and "Austerity" in the thread title to make it nicely searchable 😁

 

Richard

 

 

[yaxxbarl]

24 minutes ago, Geordie Exile said:

Hi All

 

I've searched the forum and to my surprise can't find a thread already asking these questions.  If it's just me looking but not seeing, please point me in the right direction.  If it's not all in one place, I thought a thread might be useful to other conversion beginners like me.

 

I've found the list of things I'll need on the Association website, but have ended up with more questions than answers.  I'll go through the "Required Parts List" (found here) item-by-item with my questions/comments, and would really appreciate your help.

 

Required Parts List

Chassis etch

• 3-640 (Farish Austerity/LNER J94: Etched N/S)
• Currently TOS from Shop 3 😒

Motor

• 3-241 (12V Coreless: 6 x 15mm: 0.8mm shaft)

Association frame spacer PCB

• 3-156 (Frame Spacer: 150mm long x 6.4mm wide x 1.6mm: PCB)
• or???
• 3-157 (Frame Spacer: 150mm long x 7.0mm wide x 1.6mm: PCB)
• For future reference, how will I know?

Loco wheels (see table below)

• 3-006 (Mk5: 8.5mm)

6 x crankpins

• 3-125 (Flanged: 0.5mm dia: 0.75mm Base for Mk6 and later Wheels: Turned Brass)
• or???
• 3-126 (Long: 0.5mm dia: Turned Brass)
• I assume it's the latter, as the only 8.5mm wheels I can find are Mk5, which - obviously? - predates "Mk6 and later"

Crankpin washers

• 3-127 (0.6mm Bore: Etched N/S)

30:1 worm set with 1.5mm bore worm.

• Is this 3-352 (Gearbox Block: 100DP 30:1: Machined Brass)? If so, the instructions PDF (here) for this refers to additional parts which I guess covers the "1.5mm bore worm" and the next two items (gear and axle muffs).
• 3-361 (Worm: 100DP: 1.5mm Bore: Acetal)

Gear muffs

• 3-101 (Muff: 1/8" OD: Imperial Gears: Acetal)

Axle muffs

• 3-100 (Muff: 1/8" OD: Ungeared Wheels: Acetal)

Spur gears as appropriate (see the arrangement diagram for the specific loco)

• Where do I find this diagram?  Is it an Association thing? 

0.3mm brass or nickel silver rod

• I'd have headed straight to Eileen's Emporium for this, but I understand we've lost this wonderful asset.  Any favourite alternatives (in terms of supplier or indeed material)?

 

The Milled Gearbox Block instructions refer to a "30T 100DP Skew Gear".  Is this 3-367 (Skew Cut Gear: 100DP: 30T: 1/8" Bore: Brass). Should it be included in the Required Parts List?

 

I'd very much appreciate any pointers.  If we end up with lots of separate answers, that's fine: I'll combine them all into a final post and who knows, another newbie like me might stumble upon it.  I've even included "Farish", "J94" and "Austerity" in the thread title to make it nicely searchable 😁

 

Richard

 

 

Richard,

 

Firstly,

 

https://2mm.org.uk/products/instruction_sheets/pdf3-640_drwg.pdf

 

Is the instruction sheet that has all details of gearing on page 2.

 

For the drive train it says a worm with a 100DP worm/30T gear wheel, with one 14t metric 0.4DP gear and two 18t 0.4DP gears. That's what I've used on mine. You won't need one of the 30:1 gearboxes as a gearbox is on the etch.

 

Wheels are Mk5 8.5mm, they do actually seem to be to the correct pattern for an Austerity too.

 

On crankpins I think you're going to have to use the Mk6 ones and widen the crank holes in the wheels - I would try using drills to increase the size of the hole working up in 0.05mm increments from their current 0.5mm to 0.75mm.

 

For PCB Spacers, use the 7mm wide spacers and for the motor I used a 6mm coreless from Shop 3 with one of the 6mm 3d-printed motor mounts.

 

Finally, for detailing the body, get hold of an RT Models detailing etch, they also do an etch for the cut down Lambton Cab version, both of which contain things such as replacement steps, reversing rods and cab window overlays.

 

Cheers,

 

John

 

Edited July 3, 2023 by yaxxbarl

[Ian Smith]

Richard,

You will also need 3-133 Frame bushes (10 phosphor bronze), 6 for the axle holes and others for the worm and spur gear axles (sorry I’m not familiar with the J94 chassis so don’t know how many extra are required for the spur gear(s) or worm shaft).

I think you need the wider frame spacer PCB strip with these 0.010” chassis kits, the narrower strip I think was used with the phosphor bronze frames (scratch built).

The gear muffs will be needed on any axle that has a gear on it including the worm gear and any intermediate spur gears (the other muffs may not have a concentric hole and outer surface so if used with a gear you could end up with a gear that doesn’t run true).

Hope that is useful and also hope that someone with more experience of this chassis kit shares their knowledge too.

Ian

[Doncaster Green]

I am no expert (a read of my thread 'The Green Papers' will prove that beyond any doubt) but I am most of the way through a similar conversion, with its attendant trials and tribulations.

The chassis etch comes complete with a fold up worm housing and all necessary holes for a drive train of 30:1 worm and skew cut wheel, M0.4 18 tooth gear and M0.4 14 tooth gear. You will need 10 frame bushes, 6 for the three axles, two for lay shaft that carries the wormwheel and the 14 tooth gear (muff 3-102a) and two for worm housing.  The 18 tooth gear mounts on the rear driven axle (again muff 3-102a).

 

With crankpins I was lucky as the old style flanged pin with a 0.5mm base was still available and is a direct fit for the Mk 5 wheel.  Not having used them, I would assume the current 0.5mm long crankpin, going by the pic on the shop listing, mounts from the back of the wheel, possibly using a crankpin washer as a flange on the front face, but I'm open to offers there.  I still have a few of the old ones sufficient for the Mk4 and Mk5 wheels I have in stock.

 

It is definitely the 7mm frame spacer you need.  The drawing on the shop 3 listing gives a good guide to the sizes needed and where to fit them.  One word of warning, fitting the sandboxes before erecting the chassis in the jig that comes with the etch is OK but fitting the footplate supports should be done after as they interfere with the chassis fitting in the jig!  Ask me how I know!

 

I have used a Shop 3 7mm coreless motor and I think the flat can will also fit but may be visible below the boiler.

 

Hope this helps

 

John

 

[MrSimon]

Hi Richard

For the 0.33 rod try Albion Alloys - I found them on eBay but I’m sure they have a page in the rest of the internet too…

My J94 chassis keeps threatening to come out of the sulking box, I think I’ve worked out what I’d done to it after doing a few

more chassis!

Cheers

Simon

[nick_bastable]

watch Nick Mitchell post via the 2mm youtube channel although he is building a more complex chassis it will help lots

 

Nick B

[Geordie Exile]

Thank you all so far.  I'll take a bit of time today consolidating this!  (Although with the actual chassis being TOS, I guess I've got more time than that...)

[Nigelcliffe]

22 hours ago, yaxxbarl said:

Wheels are Mk5 8.5mm, they do actually seem to be to the correct pattern for an Austerity too.

 

 

They are correct, or at least a reasonable approximation.   When looking up prototype data, I could find very few locos with 4ft3in wheels other than the Austerity.   So, when drawing the CAD for the 8.5mm wheel, I made them Austerity type, with spoke count, square section spokes and the pronounced change in angle part way along the spoke.    They're from the earliest types of the current wheel production, so there is bound to be scope to improve them further.  

 

 

- Nigel  (who currently draws all the 2mm loco wheels).  

[Geordie Exile]

OK, who doesn't love a spreadsheet?  Thanks to the good folk of RMWeb, I think I have a shopping list...

 

 

If this generates a whole load of "you don't need x" and "you forgot y" then I'll amend it and put it back up.

 

Richard

[Izzy]

Okay, I'll take the challange.....

 

Seriously I'd use 3-126  0.5mm crankpins with 3-129 0.6mm washers on the front with Mk5's. They can be soldered to the crankpins and will thus help retain them in the wheels and act like the flanged type as well, spacing the rods out from the wheel face. I've recently done this with one loco with Mk5's, the re-built Royal Scot I think. This is I feel a better option than opening out the 0.5mm bore in the Mk5's to 0.75mm to suit the Mk6 crankpins, less risk of the bore going off centre. I know it shouldn't happen when opening out holes, the drill should just follow the bore, but....

 

Bob

[Klaus ojo]

Richard,

I agree with Bob. You may as well file flat a side on the flange of the 3-126 long crankpins to facilitate soldering/glueing. (Preventing the crankpin turning loose is not as important on the Austerity but for return cranks on locos with Walschaerts gear) 

You are aware that the etch 3-640 is including a jig for the assembly of the chassis? Not the kind of the 3-270 but useful.

Take 3 of the axles  (if you don´t already have): The loco has 3 axles and the etched jig has holes for 3 as well. ;-)  Having one surplus is not wrong.

The jigs are fine and a great help but not mandatory . With some practice you can cope without - e.g. if you are having a small wallet or you like fiddling until everything is right.

have much fun with it!

cheers Klaus

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Klaus ojo
thick fingers

[Nigelcliffe]

3 hours ago, Izzy said:

Okay, I'll take the challange.....

 

Seriously I'd use 3-126  0.5mm crankpins with 3-129 0.6mm washers on the front with Mk5's. They can be soldered to the crankpins and will thus help retain them in the wheels and act like the flanged type as well, spacing the rods out from the wheel face. I've recently done this with one loco with Mk5's, the re-built Royal Scot I think. This is I feel a better option than opening out the 0.5mm bore in the Mk5's to 0.75mm to suit the Mk6 crankpins, less risk of the bore going off centre. I know it shouldn't happen when opening out holes, the drill should just follow the bore, but....

 

 

Plus the material the wheels are made from is really hard and tough on drills.  So if you plan to open up the crankpins,  1) probably need a drill press with good speed and pressure control,  and 2)  expect to consume drill bits at quite a high rate.     

 

Use the parts designed for the wheels,   so Mark5 and earlier wheels expect 0.5mm crankpins.      As the shop notes say, there is a gradual swap over to Mark6 wheels as stock of Mark5 is sold out in any particular size (and for some sizes that will be quite a time).  

The only reason there are Mark6 crankpins and Mark6 wheels is the difficulty in drilling crankpin holes to 0.5mm and the large cost in broken drills to do it - by going up in the print size for Mark 6 wheels, we can finish them with a significantly stronger drill and thus not cost quite so much money in drill bits and wasted time swapping broken drill bits.  

 

- Nigel

[Geordie Exile]

Thanks, gentlemen. 

16 hours ago, Klaus ojo said:

You are aware that the etch 3-640 is including a jig for the assembly of the chassis? Not the kind of the 3-270 but useful.

Take 3 of the axles  (if you don´t already have): The loco has 3 axles and the etched jig has holes for 3 as well. ;-)  Having one surplus is ot wrong.

 

I've been watching @Nick Mitchell's fab video's on the Association website, and the 3-270 jigs seemed a useful addition once the chassis no longer fits in the etched jig.  The axles should help check alignment (a la Nick's video) rather than form any part of the model.  (At least, that's what I had thought: wheel + muff + wheel should do, shouldn't it?)

 

18 hours ago, Izzy said:

Seriously I'd use 3-126  0.5mm crankpins with 3-129 0.6mm washers on the front with Mk5's.

 

15 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

Use the parts designed for the wheels,

Using the bits I'm supposed to use is definitely my preference - I'd rather end up doing as little botching as I can get away with.

 

Revised shopping list to follow...

[yaxxbarl]

23 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

Plus the material the wheels are made from is really hard and tough on drills.  So if you plan to open up the crankpins,  1) probably need a drill press with good speed and pressure control,  and 2)  expect to consume drill bits at quite a high rate.     

 

Use the parts designed for the wheels,   so Mark5 and earlier wheels expect 0.5mm crankpins.      As the shop notes say, there is a gradual swap over to Mark6 wheels as stock of Mark5 is sold out in any particular size (and for some sizes that will be quite a time).  

The only reason there are Mark6 crankpins and Mark6 wheels is the difficulty in drilling crankpin holes to 0.5mm and the large cost in broken drills to do it - by going up in the print size for Mark 6 wheels, we can finish them with a significantly stronger drill and thus not cost quite so much money in drill bits and wasted time swapping broken drill bits.  

 

- Nigel

Nigel, Klaus,

 

I had wondered about drilling out the Mk5 holes to take Mk6 crankpins by enlarging the hole in 0.05mm steps - however I'd also considered the 3-126/3-129 combo as I wasn't confident I could either retain the centring or keep the hole correctly parallel whilst drilling with my available tools. That and of course the potential for building up a large stock of broken 0.5mm drills!

 

Checking a few photos of wheels (in the office so none to hand!) suggests the rear face of the wheel is inset slightly from the back of the tyre, so the head of the 3-126 pin should be, I think, flush with the back of the tyre or at most will need minimal filing to make it flush.

 

I'll try it out on my next chassis...

 

Cheers,

 

John

 

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by yaxxbarl

[Doncaster Green]

20 hours ago, Geordie Exile said:

OK, who doesn't love a spreadsheet?  Thanks to the good folk of RMWeb, I think I have a shopping list...

 

 

If this generates a whole load of "you don't need x" and "you forgot y" then I'll amend it and put it back up.

 

Richard

Speaking as one novice to another, may I offer my thoughts?  I have now constructed three chassis of this type, the 57XX, Jinty and, in progress, the J94.  Apart from the advice to use the 0.5mm crankpins rather than the 0.75mm flanged ones, I agree with your list of model elements.

 

I would, however offer my experience thus far regarding jigs and tools.  I suggest you need more than 2 Axle Steeles.  I use four when setting the chassis up in the jig to ensure everything is true and square and don't forget you need one to chop bits off to make the stub axles for the lay shaft.  I would also suggest that you need at least two of frame assembly jig, particularly if you envisage building any chassis that don't have an assembly jig included.

I have a wheel quartering jig and have successfully used it, but it does have some drawbacks.  For example, you can't fit rods for brake hangers before fitting the wheels as the rods interfere with the quartering plates.  Similarly, in the case of the J94, fitting the footplate supports before the wheels will also mean the jig is difficult to use.  On two of the chassis I have built I have managed to quarter the wheels reasonably well using Mk1 eyeballs and a length of stiff brass rod passed through between spokes.

 

Hope this helps.

 

John

 

[Caley Jim]

6 hours ago, Doncaster Green said:

On two of the chassis I have built I have managed to quarter the wheels reasonably well using Mk1 eyeballs and a length of stiff brass rod passed through between spokes.

I've never used a jig for quartering and I make fine adjustment with a watchmaker's screwdriver between the spokes.

 

Jim

[Doncaster Green]

51 minutes ago, Caley Jim said:

I've never used a jig for quartering and I make fine adjustment with a watchmaker's screwdriver between the spokes.

 

Jim

Jim, I'm beginning to think buying the jig was unnecessary, although I do find the spacing shims extremely useful at keeping things centred, particularly if one wheel slips in more easily than the other!

 

John

 

Edited July 10, 2023 by Doncaster Green
Atrocious English!

[yaxxbarl]

12 minutes ago, Doncaster Green said:

Jim, I'm beginning to think buying the jig was unnecessary, although I do find the spacing shims extremely useful at keeping things centred, particularly if one wheel slips in easier than the other!

 

John

 

John,

 

I found the shims really useful for centring wheels on the axle muffs, and I recommend anyone doing anything with engines to get a set, even if they don't have a quartering jig.

 

Cheers,

 

John

[Ian Smith]

Like Jim, I have never used any sort of quartering jig.  Set up wheels on geared axle such that crank pins are about 90 degrees to each other (then leave that axle alone!). Adjust next set of wheels to be about same as best you can, add coupling rods so that it is an 0-4-0, then adjust the second axle only until rolls happily as an 0-4-0.  Once satisfied, add next axle and again only adjust that one until it rolls as an 0-6-0.  As Alexander would say “simples”.

Ian

[Caley Jim]

I've always used 6.5mm spacers which means my 0.25mm frames are 7mm outside width.  I found that a piece of 20thou styrene, cut away to fit round the boss on the back of the wheel with one either side between wheel and frame, gave the correct back to back.  If you use wider spacers, just do the maths and use the appropriate thickness of styrene (or whatever).  I also make all my 6-coupled locos with separate front and rear rods, half-lapped on the centre crankpin.  I found this gave freer running.  It also means that I can set up both ends as 0-4-0s when quartering.  You can do the same with one-piece rods by turning them upside down and fitting them with the rear crank pin hole on the centre crank pin and the centre one on the rear wheel.  Once you have both ends running smoothly as 0-4-0s you then fit the rods correctly.

 

Jim

[Nick Mitchell]

I really like the quartering jig and use it often, but to prove it is completely un-necessary, I will admit to having adjusted my Coal Tank from right-hand lead to left-hand lead after it was built (and had the coupling rods soldered in place) by repeated small adjustments to each axle, turn by turn.

 

The final alignment was by eye. Using a fine indelible pen, I put a spot an the reverse of the wheel tyres in line with a spoke on the wheels on one side of the chassis. On the other side of the chassis I put spots on the wheel flanges. I found it was easier to line up the spots by looking straight across the chassis than by looking through the spokes (which inevitably have rods and balance weights in the way).

 

One other tip when quartering that I learned the hard way - if your chassis bearings (or crank-pins for that matter) aren't all in line, or your rods are slightly bent, it doesn't matter what tool or method you use - good quartering will simply not be possible.

 

[Geordie Exile]

OK, shopping list revised.  I've dropped the quartering tool and will go with the quartering by hand/eye/coupling rod approach.  I'm back to the recommended crankpin options, and I've doubled the number of axle steels (three and a bit to check/keep the whole thing aligned once it's out of the jig, and a bit for the lay shaft that I'd forgotten about).

 

I know if I'd wanted 'easy' railway modelling I'd have stuck with n-gauge, but we don't half make this complicated for ourselves.  Is it time for a "you will also need..." list on the Association website that ties in with the various chassis etches?

 

 

All I need now is for the J94 chassis to come back into stock...

 

Thanks as ever to the giants on whose shoulders I'm trying to stand!

[martin580120]

I'm a bit late to the party Richard, but I found quartering without the jig quite a challenge and ended up purchasing it. It was a little tricky to use but worked first time and got everything as needed.

 

I think you also need 1 off "3-102b Muff 3mm OD: Metric Gears: Acetal" for the rear axle.

[Trewisin]

Hi Richard Have you spoken to Jerry Clifford .Im sure hes built a few J94s in his time and hes got some excellent locos on the go at the moment ,good hunting and a brave step.Ray

[2mm Andy]

20 hours ago, martin580120 said:

I'm a bit late to the party Richard, but I found quartering without the jig quite a challenge and ended up purchasing it. It was a little tricky to use but worked first time and got everything as needed.

 

I think you also need 1 off "3-102b Muff 3mm OD: Metric Gears: Acetal" for the rear axle.

 

The 3-102a should suffice for both the intermediate gear shaft and the rear axle (they come in packs of 2). The metric spur gears go on the narrow side of the rib turned on the muff.

 

Andy