Drawings of certain GWR bogies

[hclewis]

Hello! I am once again in search of drawings for carriage bogies. This time, I am researching the GWR B Sets.

 

So far, I have got the following information on which carriages had which bogies:

 

• E116: 9ft Bogies
• E129: 9ft Fishbelly Bogies
• E135/140: 7ft Plate Bogies
• E145: 9ft Heavy Bogies
• E147: 9ft Light Pressed Steel Bogies

 

If anyone could advise where I would obtain drawings for these, that would be fantastic. Cheers!

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

Try the GWS at Didcot - they have masses of GWR drawings although I don't think all the rolling stock drawings have been catalogued and the last time I heard anything about them they had not all been scanned.  GWS drawing prices are very reasonable but you will have to pay a bit more if the drawing needs to be scanned.  Judging by what I have seen the scans are of excellent quality.

 

No connection except as a very satisfied past customer. 

Edited October 2, 2023 by The Stationmaster

[hclewis]

1 minute ago, The Stationmaster said:

Try the GWS at Didcot - thay have nasses of GWR drawings although I don;t think all the rolling stock drawings have been catalogued and the last time I heard anything about them they had not all been scanned.  GWS drawing prices are very reasonable but you will have to pay a bit more if the drawing needs to be scanned.  Judging by what I have seen the scans are of excellent quality.

 

No connection except as a very satisfied past customer. 

 

Thanks for the suggestion. Do I need to be a member of the GWS or go to Didcot in order to arrange this? I haven't been able to find a contact address for the GWS to make my query.

[Wickham Green too]

On 01/10/2023 at 14:51, hclewis said:

... If anyone could advise where I would obtain drawings for these, ...

Depends what scale you're working in and how much detail you need ...... there are drawings of several varieties - not necessarily the right ones - in https://hmrs.org.uk/great-western-railway-siphons-book.html .............. you should be able to find a copy somewhere - though an updated book is imminent.

[hclewis]

2 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

Depends what scale you're working in and how much detail you need ...... there are drawings of several varieties - not necessarily the right ones - in https://hmrs.org.uk/great-western-railway-siphons-book.html .............. you should be able to find a copy somewhere - though an updated book is imminent.

More detail the better, although I can work with less detailed versions and use pictures to supplement them. I'll hunt down a copy of that book and keep an eye out for the new version.

[Cwmtwrch]

1 hour ago, Wickham Green too said:

Depends what scale you're working in and how much detail you need ...... there are drawings of several varieties - not necessarily the right ones - in https://hmrs.org.uk/great-western-railway-siphons-book.html .............. you should be able to find a copy somewhere - though an updated book is imminent.

The drawings are stated to be to 7mm scale, and show the various updates made to each type of bogie, but you will need to check photographs to see which version you want, and for the locations of the bogie footboards, as Siphons mostly didn't have them and none are shown in the drawings.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Cwmtwrch

[The Stationmaster]

5 hours ago, hclewis said:

 

Thanks for the suggestion. Do I need to be a member of the GWS or go to Didcot in order to arrange this? I haven't been able to find a contact address for the GWS to make my query.

No need to be a member - their sale of drawings is a commercial operation by the society.

[Miss Prism]

https://djb-model-rly-articles.blogspot.com/

 

 

[Miss Prism]

btw, E116 had fishbelly bogies.

 

 

[hclewis]

13 minutes ago, Miss Prism said:

btw, E116 had fishbelly bogies.

 

 

Thank you, I had updated this on my personal copy but not the thread when I realised.

[FraserClarke]

On 02/10/2023 at 12:22, hclewis said:

 

I haven't been able to find a contact address for the GWS to make my query.

 

I'm sure there is a specific address, but I can't find it... email info@didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk and I'm sure they will put you in touch with the right person... 

[Penrhos1920]

Not drawings but there are some good photos of bogies in the Carriage Shed on www.gwrcoaches.org.uk

 

 

[Penrhos1920]

On 02/10/2023 at 18:29, Miss Prism said:

btw, E116 had fishbelly bogies.

 

 

 

Don't forget that there were at least 2 types of fishbelly bogies.  Some had volute springs and others had leaf springs for the primary suspension.

[Miss Prism]

I'm not aware of volute bogies being called 'fishbelly'.

 

 

[Penrhos1920]

On 05/10/2023 at 16:10, Miss Prism said:

I'm not aware of volute bogies being called 'fishbelly'.

 

 

 

Yes I think you're probably right.  Isn't Fishbelly a name made up in the 50s by historians/modellers?  The GWR registers just call them both 9' bogies; and differentiate by recording either '5' springs' or 'Coil springs'.

 

There was somehting special about the Fishbelly bogie.  Almost all the toplights that were formed into Ambulance trains had their American bogies changed to Fishbellys.  And even in 1939 coaches built for certain branch lines had second hand Fishbellys swapped from old toplights.  The toplights then received the 9' Collett bogies that were being built at the time.

[Miss Prism]

1 hour ago, Penrhos1920 said:

Isn't Fishbelly a name made up in the 50s by historians/modellers?

 

Almost certainly true, but that is RMweb's demographic, so the term is recognised and understood.

 

Maybe the fishbelly might have been a bit lighter than the 1929 9' 'heavy', hence its popularity on some branchline stock? (I guessing!!)

[Wickham Green too]

I would have expected short ( 7' ) wheelbase bogies to have been more appropriate for curvaceous branchlines ........ but obviously God's Wonderful Railway knew better ! ☹️

[bécasse]

1 minute ago, Wickham Green too said:

I would have expected short ( 7' ) wheelbase bogies to have been more appropriate for curvaceous branchlines ........ but obviously God's Wonderful Railway knew better ! ☹️

More a case of just doing things differently to everyone else perhaps.

 

Now which railway company was it that always seemed to do things differently, seemingly just to be perverse? Ah yes, I remember now ..................

[jim.snowdon]

11 hours ago, Wickham Green too said:

I would have expected short ( 7' ) wheelbase bogies to have been more appropriate for curvaceous branchlines ........ but obviously God's Wonderful Railway knew better ! ☹️

What we do know is that when these bogies were designed, knowledge about what happened at the wheel/rail interface and the propensity for some bogie to hunt at high speeds could be summarised as three tenths of not a lot. Most railway's carriage bogies were in the 8 - 9' range, but we know that some experimented with 10' and even 11' wheelbases, which could only have been in the interests of improved riding qualities. At the same time, the GWR did have experience with short wheelbase bogies by way of the 6' 4" Dean suspension bogies, as well as the even shorter 4' 10" and 5' Dean bogies on the fish wagons.

 

[Wickham Green too]

3 minutes ago, jim.snowdon said:

What we do know is that when these bogies were designed, ............

But they were still in first rank passenger use many, many years after they were designed and after longer wheelbase bogies were in use on the GWR / elsewhere ................ it wouldn't have needed a Hallade recorder to detect hunting at speed - the Mk1 human backside would have sufficed.

[jim.snowdon]

29 minutes ago, Wickham Green too said:

But they were still in first rank passenger use many, many years after they were designed and after longer wheelbase bogies were in use on the GWR / elsewhere ................ it wouldn't have needed a Hallade recorder to detect hunting at speed - the Mk1 human backside would have sufficed.

Indeed not, as I can testify from personal experience. Hunting is quite noticeable. The only clues as to the GWR's thinking are likely to be buried in the dusty minutes of some past rolling stock committee, probably never to be found again except by some diligent inhabitant of the National Archives.