Need Help with getting Camps Junction to work

[Camps Junction]

Hi all been away from this since my child hood, Anyway I grew up next to a Railway ,Over looking Wood Green Depot and now age 60 I live next to a Narrow Gauge station over looking the Rhiedol Railway, Anyway as a kid I’d allways said if I ever get room I’d like to include wood green depot into a layout, Ive nearly finished the base boards for my 18ftx18ft  x3ft N gauge layout, I’ve spent many months trying do a layout on Anyrail6 incorporating a similar look to WOOD GREEN JUNCTION in the design ,But after finishing the design I posted it on a certain FB page and a few people slated it saying it wasn’t a model railway layout was just a train set as it wouldn’t work as a model, Can someone explain to me why and where where I’ve gone wrong, I’ve got a main line and a branch line in, I’ll try and post a pic of design any help would be great, many thanks Andy.

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Camps Junction
New pic

[Harlequin]

Hi Andy,

 

There are various issues with the plan but before getting into it can you label the plan so that we can see what all the elements are, please? That will help when describing changes.

 

The 3ft and 4ft deep baseboards are concerning. Can you reach to the very back safely without damaging the scenery at the front? Reaching into the top left and bottom left corners in particular is going to be very difficult, I think.

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Harlequin

[RobinofLoxley]

I take it the picture is of a drawing, not of an Anyrail file?? I use Anyrail a lot and the format looks a bit strange. Asking as you can post the Anyrail file, if it is, direct into a posting here. You first have to go to File-Export- then save the file as a .jpg, exit the application or close the file, then you can use the choose files option, search for the file, and insert it.

 

As things stand, as Phil says, the left hand side  and top left corner can't be reached. The overpass on the LHS will be challenging but it is N gauge and the clearance required is less than for OO.

 

Overall, this is a very large and challenging design; if you havent built a model railway before, extremely challenging.

 

Did you have any thoughts as to how you would control and operate the layout? Given its size, and the number of trains that can be on it at any one time, and the possible operating movements, I would say that it would be better to operate it on DCC with the intention of having some automation.

 

Have you thought about how you will construct the baseboards? You are going to need to plan that, because laying turnouts across baseboard joints is tricky, and if they will be motorised, the motor position  has to be allowed for as well as the turnout. Its possible to purchase them, of course, at a price. My layout has 23, they take some building.

 

What era are you intending to model? A lot of track planning is era-dependent.

 

Answer these questions then some thought can be given to the track plan itself.

 

.

[Camps Junction]

Thanks all for your thoughts, First of all the 3-4ft issue I’m 6ft 5 so the 3 or 4ft base boards are now real issue for me., I have not built any model rail since I was a nipper but I’ve been building models for many years, Also worked as a debug tech for a big electrics company for many years so soldering I can do in my sleep lol, Yes it will be controlled by Dcc all being well, As for the base boards there are 3 1 inch holes on every cross brace for feeding wires, Also if a point ends up directly above a cross a brace I have drilled an offset into each brake to allow it to be moved slightly if the case arrives,, Of the 8 base boards I have 2 left to build. Hope this helps, Oooops forgot yes I made the plan on anyrail 6 but as yet I havnt worked out how to get the pic directly from my laptop to my ipad but will try and sort pic and labels this evening.👍

[Camps Junction]

Hi all is this a better image?

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Camps Junction

[Harlequin]

Even though you are tall I predict the width of the baseboards will be a problem.

 

In the real world trains pass through the junction on their way from somewhere and to somewhere else. The plan doesn't allow for that at the moment. Many people get bored of running a train out of a station round and round and then parking back where it came from - it doesn't give the sense of purposeful travel of the real thing. To address that you either needs two stations, with capacious siding space in both, or an off-scene fiddle yard / storage yard.

 

When you connect some freight sidings to a running line, think about how a loco hauled train will use them. It can't enter the sidings loco first because it will be trapped at the buffers and the only possible move then is to reverse the whole train back out. The loco needs to be able to pass the sidings and then "set back" (set the train back) into them, leaving the loco free to uncouple and depart. This is one reason why sidings usually make trailing connections into main running lines. (The others are history and safety.)

 

For trains arriving from either direction to be able to shunt freight sidings you need to give the loco some means of running round its train. That needs either a loop in a single line or a pair of crossovers in a double line.

 

The branch line appears to be double track but it splits unexpectedly to the right of the station. So the branchline tracks up the right hand side are a bi-directional single line and an immensely long lead into the sidings. Very odd.

 

I guess the blue rectangles are the giant Hitachi and Siemens facilities. They will swallow whole trains and hide them. That doesn't seem very interesting.

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Harlequin

[RobinofLoxley]

Its as good, knowing that you are familiar with Anyrail. Going back a step, Phil (@Harlequin) wanted so see track labels, probably to know what code track has been used. In some selections of track library parameters its obvious, with line drawing less so.

 

I've got a couple of questions, that relate to how you reached this point, having set out to model Wood Green, now known as Alexandra Palace; Im not sure when it was renamed but someone will know; to me Wood Green suggests sixties or earlier. Some of the elements of the proposed plan are suggestive of the track outline shown in railmap online, with historic railways selected.

 

https://www.RailMapOnline.com/UKIEMap.php?lat=51.60256&lng=-0.12564&zoom=17.0

 

However, with other parts of the proposed plan, there are major major deviations from what I would expect in a plan to model Wood Green as a roundy layout. The most significant is the location of the main station where actually Bowes Park might be. The other, and its related question, is that the tracks through the station that form the loop are therefore the Hertford North branch, which is double track. The roundy section is currently three loops. So it isnt a representation of the main line either.

 

On the map of the real railway, the main and suburban lines disappear into a tunnel, which could be represented on the plan, before curving away unseen and emerging on the other side of the layout. The main yards North of the station can be represented. South of the station, I dont know, as there are many crossovers over an extended length of track, but in the context of what is a huge space in N , possible in my opinion to model.

[TonyMay]

The facing point straight off a passenger line into the depot seems rather unprototypical.

[ikcdab]

One thing that distinguishes a model railway from a train set is the track geometry.  Train sets have tight curves, straight track and no transition between the two.

Model railways emulate the real thing and have long, sweeping curves as far as possible with very little actual straight track. You have 18ft square in N gauge, that should give you the chance to have long sweeping curves and much more generous radii. Try and get away from the square "straight and curved" layout. 

Ian

Edited October 3, 2023 by ikcdab

[The Johnster]

It’s a large and complex plan which will take a lot of work to keep the tracks clean and has a lot of point motors that will need seeing to sometimes, meaning a lot of crawling about under baseboards, which is onerous for a person of your stature.  And, like others, I would be concerned about the depth of the baseboards.  All for something that can run four trains round and round and not much else; getting trains in and out of the depots or even shunting them around within the depots will be quite awkward.  I think you are being too ambitious for what is going to be your first ‘serious’ model railway.  The lack of a fiddle yard (to store alternative trains offstage and represent the rest of the known universe) and some and what look to me like unprototypical elements of the track plan do make it look a bit ‘trainsetty’ tbh.  
 

My advice FWIW would be to go for a simpler plan than this, but keep Wood Green on the backburner as your ultimate dream project.  A simpler plan would be easier and quicker to build and can be used as the learning curve for the ultimate project.  It would also be easier to configure to enable space for a fiddle yard, and that would mean a greater variety of trains to run on the scenified part of the layout.  You would also be able to incorporate headshunts for your depots and yards so that shunting operations can be carried on without interfering with the main line traffic.   

[Camps Junction]

So after reading the comments I’ve decided to do an 18x3 end to end that when finished it can be linked to the other 3 parts to make Camps Junction , So just got to sort this out.

[DavidB-AU]

You might be able to reach 3-4 ft now, but that may not be the case in future years.

 

As to the track design, back to first principles and follow the prototype for your desires location and era. Avoid the temptation to cram in as much track as possible. 

[DCB]

It's a classic train set with scenic fiddle yard  where trains wait their turn to run and a running track where trains get a bit of exercise before returning .   It shows off your rolling stock collection and lets 2 trains run continuously.  I don't know the prototype location but there are places like Tyne Yard and Old Oak common where lots of trains lay over and the tracks are full of trains.    Not my scene and I suspect not the effect most contributors on here aim for
If you are a collector it may be very good, but don't even think about DC wiring.   Far Far Far too complicated this has to be DCC,   It looks like a chunk of Quail maps was the inspiration and while the configuration is probably right it has been shortened so there is no room to shunt along the running lines clear of the junctions which would make running more than 2 trains at a time very challenging.

 Most people have a hidden off stage fiddle yard  and a station where trains arrive, depart, shunt or reverse  much like happens at a full size station.   One or two trains on stage, 5 /10/20 or more off stage awaiting their turn.   Mine can have 20 trains waiting, off stage, or 18 off stage and two running continuously, 4 shunting, and one on a branch shuttle  ( or 3 shunting and 2 shuttles)  and most 1957 / 63  WR trains can be represented.   The waiting trains are hidden. For me that is important,  they have left for London or Plymouth and are out of sight.  It's not the right or wrong way to do it  but it works for me in the same way the \op plan does not.

 

Doodle shows station without linking tracks 2main line from right two from left

It sort of makes sense if a lot of inner right trains terminate and go to the depot on left

Inner left line looks like afterthought....

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by DCB

[DCB]

Looking at the full size Wood Green on Google Maps  and comparing it to the plan (apart from a horizontal flip east to west)  it looks like the basics of a 4 track main line with a diverging double track branch curving away over a  flying  junction and a load of storage sidings added later got lost in maze of random storage sidings.   Not much wrong with the prototype plan as a model as long as the four tracks enter and leave the station area and the branch loops round and rejoins the outer tracks from the south, and the storage is added round the edges. Sadly that means a complete re design compared to the OP. It's Just a matter of starting from first principles

Edited October 4, 2023 by DCB