Midland to LMS Tender Plates

[Ian M.]

Did the Midland apply tender number/owner plates to its tenders in the 1900-1923 Period? I know LMS did after grouping, but also wonder if this was only begun with the 1927 livery/numbering changes when loco numbers came of the tenders. I am familiarwith the brass water capacity plates applied butches MR and retained by LMS, so am referring to the square iron plates mounted above the capacity plates,  at east in LMS times. 

[Compound2632]

The LMS carried out a general (re)numbering of tenders in early 1928. Midland tender engines built from 1874 had a oval plate carrying the company name and the engine number; this continued after the 1905 livery change when the engine number was put on the tender and there are instances of tenders carrying plates with their engine's post-1907 number but it is not known whether all tenders were given new plates. It seems tender number plates were not used in the company's final decade or so, but evidence is limited - not many photos of tender rears. [S. Summerson, Midland Railway Locomotives Vol. 1 (Irwell Press, 2000) pp. 138-9.]

 

In Johnson's time and later, engines generally kept their original tenders but there were redistributions from time to time - e.g. various Kirtley classes being given Johnson tenders - what isn't clear to me from Summerson but is I think implied is that tender numberplates were changed for ones carrying the number of the engine to which the tender had been reallocated.

 

So from Midland and early LMS days, there are surviving lists of the type of tender allocated to particular engines but it is only after 1927 that the allocation of a specific tender can be tracked.

 

As far as I can work out, a consequence of all this is that while Midland tender capacity plates survive, there seem to be no surviving tender numberplates.

 

There is a topic Midland Railway Company in this section of the forum, which is frequented by several of the Midland Railway Society's locomotive experts; posing the question in that topic may get a more authoritative answer. I'm a carriage and wagon enthusiast myself; as you see, all I've done is read the textbook! (I've put a link to your post in there.)

 

 

Edited October 5, 2023 by Compound2632

[Ian M.]

Many thanks Compound2632.  Moved the topic and replied here: 

Hopefully this is cool with the Mods.