Speed restrictions on GWR secondary and branch lines

[Miss Prism]

Is there a list of speed restrictions for GWR secondary and branch lines?  (Temporary restrictions excluded of course.)

 

[Zoe]

You can find these in the relevant Service Timetables.  Michael Clemens has a full set of these for September 1949 at https://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/?atk=592 although these are of course from just after the GWR became the WR.   You will find the information in the latter pages, after the end of the main timetables.

 

There are also some older timetables available on the same site at https://www.michaelclemensrailways.co.uk/?atk=625

Edited October 21, 2023 by Zoe

[Cwmtwrch]

If you can find a second-hand copy of "GWR Service Timetable Appendices 1945", Bradford Barton, 1977, it has the local speed limits in, Section by Section, and may be easier to manage. There are many hundreds of these speed limits, most of which are not likely to have changed much between the 1920s and the 1950s, inclusive. May one ask why you want this information?

[Miss Prism]

48 minutes ago, Cwmtwrch said:

May one ask why you want this information?

 

I had an enquiry (off-RMweb) from someone who bemoaned that his locos all liked to charge around at 200mph (a familiar lament in the RTR world), and he wanted to know what would be prototypical, including maxima, speeds for branchlines, so that he could programme more realistic limits in his DCC chips. I made a few educated guesses (for his 48xx, pannier/small prairie, and large prairie), and I don't think I was far out, but I was conscious I didn't have good information to hand, and hence the question here.

 

[Cwmtwrch]

Whitchurch and Aberystwyth was limited 60 mph, but with 50+ local restrictions to speeds between 10 and 40 mph. Permitted Blue engines were limited to 40mph, plus some 10mph bridge restrictions.

The Kerry branch was limited to 5mph.

The Halesowen branch GW section was limited to 15 mph, apart from two sections where there was a limit to 10mph for subsidence.

Neath Riverside to Brecon was limited to 30mph for passenger trains, 25mph for goods, with 20 or so local limitation to 10, 15 or 20mph.

The Cirencester branch limit was 40mph.

The Minehead Branch was limited to 55mph, plus 20+ local reductions, mostly only by 5 or 10mph.

 

This is just a quick random selection from the book I referred to in my previous post. Makes you realise how low, by modern standards, most trains were... HTH.

 

 

[Blandford1969]

The Severn Valley railway had a permenant speed restriction of 45mph south of Bridgnorth and 55mph north of Bridgnorth. The curves at Northwood were restricted to 40, and the section from what is now just beyond the waterworks to the Arley side of Victoria bridge was 30mph. Not sure about the restrictions north of Bridgnorth - However I imagine there might have been something around Jackfield. 

[The Johnster]

To give more examples, the Rhymney is 90mph, and the Taff Vale is 50mph above Radyr Jc, as is the Barry and (same thing really) the Vale of Glamorgan.  This illustrates the difference between line speed, the overall restriction of a route, and PROS, lower limits applied to sections due to curvature, mining subsidence, formation/drainage problems, bridges, junctions, &c. which are applied to sections of routes.

 

The Porthcawl Branch, 'railwayed up' from a tramway, had a line speed of 15mph but the only locos allowed that breakneck lunacy were the 44xx (and even they had to be turned at Tondu every lunchtime to even out the flange wear), all others were restricted to 5mph throughout. Another 5mph line was the Barry Island Branch.  Horses will bolt in terror, cows (perhaps I mean embarrassed coos) will miscarry, your brains will be forced out through your ears...

 

The speed restriction on the Porthcawl Branch never changed, but in 1953 the 44xx were xfer away from TDU because a new timetable introduced in the September of that year introduced auto working to the branch, with newly auto-fitted 4575s.  Because of the low speeds, and conveniently for other local depots that wanted to get rid of musuem pieces, the first allocations of auto-trailers to TDU were gas-lit.  They included some interesting coaches, including Diagram Ns (thank you again, Dapol), TVR gangayed twin-sets, and the sole surviving Clifton Downs A2 compartment driving trailer.  This coach, W 3338, had been initially withdrawn from service in the London area in 1947, but was re-instated in 1950 and sent to South Wales in an odd lined crimson livery.  This was nine years before the intoduction of lined maroon on non-gangwayed stock.  It lasted until 1955, and my model of it is currently sitting in the platform at Cwmdimbath behind 5556 accompanying an unlines crimson Airfix A30 W 190 W, both correct for Tondu.  It was fairly quickly found that the dynamos of electrically lit trailers could cope with the now de facto 5mph limit of the Porthcawl branch, and the gaslit trailers were withdrawn as electrically lit replacements became availalble, the last examples going in 1958 as a result of cascading after the introduction of 116 dmus elsewhere in the Valleys.  A good example of a speed restriction affecting the choice of locos and rolling stock for a service.

Edited October 22, 2023 by The Johnster

[Cwmtwrch]

14 hours ago, The Johnster said:

but was re-instated in 1950 and sent to South Wales in an odd lined crimson livery.

The original BR livery for plain crimson non-corridor coaches [and a few NPCCS] had the same lining in the same places [more or less] as the corridor stock. However, the powers that be decided sometime in 1950/51 to stop applying such lining. There are some examples of it visible in photographs in Great Western Coaches. The dating suggests that this coach was repainted on re-instatement.

[The Johnster]

It was the re-instatement livery, yes, previous withdrawal was probaby in 1942-5 brown.  ot quite the same lining, though, simple yellow bands, inch at the waist, half at the cantrail, no black edging/shading.  It continued around the front of the coach but of course the back was painted black.  Photo in Lewis Autotrailers of it in post-1950 service at Pontypridd show two droplights in cream, probably replacements from stock; my Roxey model has these in the correct places.

 

This happened fairly frequently; the droplight shock-absorber springs jammed or rusted out and passengers often simply flicked the leather strap off the brass thingy and let the light free-fall.  Result, especially if the wood was a bit dicey, smashed droplight and fresh air whether you wanted it or not!  Or the strap broke when you pulled the light up.  It's quite noticeable in photos and a nice little detail to include so long as it's not overdone, esp. for coaches modelled as being heavily weathered and a long time in service, due for overhaul soon!

[Cwmtwrch]

18 hours ago, The Johnster said:

ot quite the same lining, though, simple yellow bands, inch at the waist, half at the cantrail, no black edging/shading.  It continued around the front of the coach but of course the back was painted black.

So far as I have been able to establish, continuing the body colour, and the lining, if any, on the driving ends was true of all non-corridor auto trailers in BR livery. I haven't a clue on 3338's livery though.