Re-mapping Loksound Function Buttons With Digitrax Zephyr Express

[Smudge617]

I have the New Accurascale Class 37 with a Loksound decoder, I'm trying to re-map functions F2 and F9 (Brake and two-tone) I just want to swap them over, Steve (@55020) gave me instructions which he has already tried as to how to do this.

 

CV31 = 1, CV32 = 1
----------------------

CV261 = 192

CV262 =  106
CV275 =  64
CV276 =  59

 

CV31 = 16, CV32 = 8
----------------------
CV340 =   0
CV343 =   2
CV452 =   8
CV455 =   0

 

I have tried for several hours now, but when I input the values given into the above CVs the CV data shows me a totally different set of values for those CVs.

 

CV 261 input 192                 192

     262 input   06  goes to  234

     275 input   64       "           92

     276 input   59       "        No Ack Pulse

 

 

CV 340 input  0   goes to  128

     343 input   2        "         130

     452 input   8        "         No Ack Pulse      

     455 input   0        "            0

 

The sound functions remain the same and the Locomotive doesn't answer any command from the throttle, can anyone enlighten me as to what the problem might be ?

Edited November 1, 2023 by Smudge617

[Nigelcliffe]

I'd recommend using a USB cable from the Zephyr Express to your computer, and load JMRI.  Use DecoderPro to read the current function map (it will take quite a while, possibly an hour) and then set things how you'd like them to be.  

 

Its much simpler than keying in CV values manually.   The difficulty with LokSound locos is the sheer number of CV's and also the index values (CV31/32).  DecoderPro looks after all of them for you. 

 

( I can't decypher the instructions you have above from reading the ESU manual.  That's not saying they are wrong, just I can't match the combinations of index values and CV's.   One or two elements I can match, but not most of them.   )  

 

- Nigel

[Smudge617]

21 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

I'd recommend using a USB cable from the Zephyr Express to your computer, and load JMRI.  Use DecoderPro to read the current function map (it will take quite a while, possibly an hour) and then set things how you'd like them to be.  

 

Its much simpler than keying in CV values manually.   The difficulty with LokSound locos is the sheer number of CV's and also the index values (CV31/32).  DecoderPro looks after all of them for you. 

 

( I can't decypher the instructions you have above from reading the ESU manual.  That's not saying they are wrong, just I can't match the combinations of index values and CV's.   One or two elements I can match, but not most of them.   )  

 

- Nigel

I would need a Digitrax PR3 or 4 to use JMRI, which is not in my budget for a long while yet, if ever, I don't usually re-map Functions buttons,  hence me having to do this the hard way

Edited November 2, 2023 by Smudge617

[Pete the Elaner]

30 minutes ago, Smudge617 said:

I would need a Digitrax PR3 or 4 to use JMRI, which is not in my budget for a long while yet, if ever, I don't usually re-map Functions buttons,  hence me having to do this the hard way

 

Are you sure about that? I just looked up Zephyr Express on Digitrax's website & the manual shows a USB port on the back. It says it can be "used as an interface for other compatible layout control software", so JMRI should not be blocked.

 

I second Nigel's comment. JMRI is great for so much more than function mapping. It has made itself my 'go to' for any changing any settings.

[Nigelcliffe]

1 hour ago, Smudge617 said:

I would need a Digitrax PR3 or 4 to use JMRI, which is not in my budget for a long while yet, if ever, I don't usually re-map Functions buttons,  hence me having to do this the hard way

 

As per Pete above,  the Zephyr Express has a USB port on the back.    JMRI will work through that.    Just requires a standard USB lead.  

 

https://www.jmri.org/help/en/html/hardware/loconet/DCS52.shtml

 

 

Unless you have a different Zephyr, such as the Zephyr Xtra (DCS51), or the original DCS50 one from almost 20 years ago....    If using one of the earlier Zephyrs, you may be bumping into all sorts of other issues around maximum function numbers, and manual entering on the keypad requires using decoder offset values as well as index values (which is well into total madness territory to keep everything in line).   With those, a USB device such as PR3/4 or LocoBuffer is required for the computer, and solves all the keypad limitations.  

 

 

- Nigel

[Smudge617]

4 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

Are you sure about that? I just looked up Zephyr Express on Digitrax's website & the manual shows a USB port on the back. It says it can be "used as an interface for other compatible layout control software", so JMRI should not be blocked.

 

I second Nigel's comment. JMRI is great for so much more than function mapping. It has made itself my 'go to' for any changing any settings.

 

4 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

As per Pete above,  the Zephyr Express has a USB port on the back.    JMRI will work through that.    Just requires a standard USB lead.  

 

https://www.jmri.org/help/en/html/hardware/loconet/DCS52.shtml

 

 

Unless you have a different Zephyr, such as the Zephyr Xtra (DCS51), or the original DCS50 one from almost 20 years ago....    If using one of the earlier Zephyrs, you may be bumping into all sorts of other issues around maximum function numbers, and manual entering on the keypad requires using decoder offset values as well as index values (which is well into total madness territory to keep everything in line).   With those, a USB device such as PR3/4 or LocoBuffer is required for the computer, and solves all the keypad limitations.  

 

 

- Nigel

 

Thank you both, I have the Zephyr Express, so there is a USB port at the rear,  so somewhere in a box in another box which I think is in yet another box, under my layout is the box the controller came in, I'm sure it came with a cable, I think they called is a Loconet cable, I don't know if that's the right cable, or even if it's still in the box, but if not, I'm sure I can find one..

 

Thanks to you two gentlemen I've downloaded JMRI in preparation, but without being able to connect the controller I can't do much it seems, would have been nice to play around with it first, to get a feel for it and see how it works before trying to do it for real.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Smudge617

[LMSfan72]

I don’t think it’s a LocoNet cable you need. I think it’s a standard USB-A to USB-B PC printer cable, something like this:

 

[Smudge617]

You're right I've checked on the Digitrax website, and the box would have included an LT1 Loconet and Decoder Tester cable, which is this one, although after reading the instructions on how to use it, I'm still mystified.

 

 

Looks like I need to go shopping (again)😏

 

 

[Smudge617]

I've just realised I don't need to buy one, my printer uses the same cable.😀

[Nigelcliffe]

20 hours ago, Smudge617 said:

 

Thanks to you two gentlemen I've downloaded JMRI in preparation, but without being able to connect the controller I can't do much it seems, would have been nice to play around with it first, to get a feel for it and see how it works before trying to do it for real.

 

There's a fairly steep learning curve, because what you're asking to do is in the moderately advanced level of decoder changes in an extremely complicated decoder.  

 

There's not a huge amount of point trying without the cable connected to the Zephyr-Express. 

 

1)  Start the DecoderPro option.     (*)

2)  Get the connection sorted out (from the JMRI page I gave earlier, you want the full-features access, not the minimal programmer).   This should bring up the "roster" view, which will be empty (I think it still has help text in the various panels if empty).  

3)  Check connectivity to the Zephyr,  you should be able to turn the track power on/off from JMRI.  And, if you open the "loconet monitor" and then use the Zephyr to control a loco, you should see lots of commands flying around.   (Optionally you could open an on-screen throttle and drive a loco.)    This proves the software is talking to your Zephyr.   

 

 

4)   decoder stuff - loco on programming track, and "identify decoder".  It should, eventually, offer you some ESU decoders,  you want a LokSound (Edit - Kaput below says the loco is a "DCC" version, even though  those are US-market and different - blame ESU for poor product labels), and presumably a version 5.

 

5 )   Give the decoder a name (anything that makes sense to you for the future, "Thomas the Tank Engine" is acceptable).   Then open "comprehensive" programmer.  

 

 

There will be lots of tabs.  Start with "basic" and get it to "read sheet".  The decoder should populate address, etc. on the basic sheet...     That will also let you change address and "write changes to decoder" (usual action for writing anything to a decoder). 

 

The stuff you're looking for to move functions around is the "function map".   This needs reading in.  It will take an age to do (could be an hour), because there are hundreds, if not thousands, of CV's to read.   It only needs reading once for the loco.    Once read, you can look at making changes.   It ***is*** really complicated for an ESU Loksound because the decoders are really complicated.     

What you're probably looking to do is alter the "mapping line" which is currently controlled by the F2 key, and just changing the key on that line to F9 (or whatever you wanted), and the same on the mapping line controlled by F9...  

 

 

 

(* there is no real difference between "DecoderPro" and "PanelPro",  both are exactly the same software.   The only difference is which window is shown first on starting the software.     And blame me for the design of the Roster window - I did that work over a decade ago with Kevin Dickerson (who now owns Coastal DCC), and nobody has wanted to make major changes to the Roster view since.      ). 

 

 

- Nigel

 

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Nigelcliffe

[Smudge617]

8 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

 

There's a fairly steep learning curve, because what you're asking to do is in the moderately advanced level of decoder changes in an extremely complicated decoder.  

 

There's not a huge amount of point trying without the cable connected to the Zephyr-Express. 

 

1)  Start the DecoderPro option.     (*)

2)  Get the connection sorted out (from the JMRI page I gave earlier, you want the full-features access, not the minimal programmer).   This should bring up the "roster" view, which will be empty (I think it still has help text in the various panels if empty).  

3)  Check connectivity to the Zephyr,  you should be able to turn the track power on/off from JMRI.  And, if you open the "loconet monitor" and then use the Zephyr to control a loco, you should see lots of commands flying around.   (Optionally you could open an on-screen throttle and drive a loco.)    This proves the software is talking to your Zephyr.   

 

 

4)   decoder stuff - loco on programming track, and "identify decoder".  It should, eventually, offer you some ESU decoders,  you want a LokSound (not the "DCC" versions, those are US-market and different - blame ESU for poor product labels), and presumably a version 5.

 

5 )   Give the decoder a name (anything that makes sense to you for the future, "Thomas the Tank Engine" is acceptable).   Then open "comprehensive" programmer.  

 

 

There will be lots of tabs.  Start with "basic" and get it to "read sheet".  The decoder should populate address, etc. on the basic sheet...     That will also let you change address and "write changes to decoder" (usual action for writing anything to a decoder). 

 

The stuff you're looking for to move functions around is the "function map".   This needs reading in.  It will take an age to do (could be an hour), because there are hundreds, if not thousands, of CV's to read.   It only needs reading once for the loco.    Once read, you can look at making changes.   It ***is*** really complicated for an ESU Loksound because the decoders are really complicated.     

What you're probably looking to do is alter the "mapping line" which is currently controlled by the F2 key, and just changing the key on that line to F9 (or whatever you wanted), and the same on the mapping line controlled by F9...  

 

 

 

(* there is no real difference between "DecoderPro" and "PanelPro",  both are exactly the same software.   The only difference is which window is shown first on starting the software.     And blame me for the design of the Roster window - I did that work over a decade ago with Kevin Dickerson (who now owns Coastal DCC), and nobody has wanted to make major changes to the Roster view since.      ). 

 

 

- Nigel

 

 

WOW, I see it's not quite as easy as some people have made out, this is going to take me a while to get my head around JMRI, apart from Loco addressing and the three-speed steps, I don't mess with any other CVs, I always leave them as per factory.

 

I'm going to copy and paste the above so I don't lose it, I think it'll help me a great deal in the weeks to come, thanks.

 

I can see myself writing CV8-8 quite a few times in the near future🤔

Edited November 3, 2023 by Smudge617

[Kaput]

8 hours ago, Nigelcliffe said:

4)   decoder stuff - loco on programming track, and "identify decoder".  It should, eventually, offer you some ESU decoders,  you want a LokSound (not the "DCC" versions, those are US-market and different - blame ESU for poor product labels), and presumably a version 5.

 

Slight correction, if its a factory sound Accurascale model then it will be a Loksound 5 DCC. For reasons known only to ESU almost all factory sound Loksounds are the "DCC" versions instead of the full fat ones.

[Nigelcliffe]

54 minutes ago, Kaput said:

 

Slight correction, if its a factory sound Accurascale model then it will be a Loksound 5 DCC. For reasons known only to ESU almost all factory sound Loksounds are the "DCC" versions instead of the full fat ones.

 Thanks,  post above edited to include this.  

[Pete the Elaner]

6 hours ago, Kaput said:

 

Slight correction, if its a factory sound Accurascale model then it will be a Loksound 5 DCC. For reasons known only to ESU almost all factory sound Loksounds are the "DCC" versions instead of the full fat ones.

 

This sounds like a complication.

Is a Loksound DCC similar to the v5 equivalent of a v4 Loksound Select, which can only be re-blown by projects compiled specifically for a Select?

I am considering a reblow of my AS Class 37 (which I assume is a Loksound DCC). Will this be possible?

[Kaput]

A Loksound 5 DCC is literally a Loksound 5 with all protocol support other than DCC removed, they support the simple 3 step speed curve using CV2, 5 and 6 and the formula used to calculate acceleration and decceleration from the values in CV3 and 4 is differrent.

 

Can reblow any Loksound 5 project to them but if its not a DCC verion of the project the CV3/4 values will be off.

[5BarVT]

On 03/11/2023 at 10:24, Nigelcliffe said:

And blame me for the design of the Roster window - I did that work over a decade ago with Kevin Dickerson (who now owns Coastal DCC), and nobody has wanted to make major changes to the Roster view since.      ). 

Thank you to you and Kevin.  I wouldn’t be without it.

Paul.

[Steven B]

On 03/11/2023 at 18:43, Smudge617 said:

WOW, I see it's not quite as easy as some people have made out, this is going to take me a while to get my head around JMRI, apart from Loco addressing and the three-speed steps, I don't mess with any other CVs, I always leave them as per factory.

 

It might take some time to get your head around JMRI, but it's infinitely better than tinkering with CVs manually.

 

Steven B