SDJR coaches in the late 1930s

[RobAllen]

In  https://www.rmweb.co.uk/topic/146249-a-typical-sdjr-train-c-1902/page/4/#comment-5335391, @Compound2632 notes "By 1933, the LMS had withdrawn all its share of the non-bogie passenger-carrying vehicles, so some interpolation is needed."

 

Is there any information on what coaches were used on the line for local services in the late 1930s/early 1940s and what livery they carried?


In Bournemouth to Evercreech Junction by Mitchel & Smith states: "From 1st July 1923, the recently formed SR and LMSR became joint owners of the route between Bath and Broadstone. It continued to be operated as a separate railway until 1st July 1930, when the distinctive Prussian blue trains were replaced by SR green coaches and LMS-liveried locomotives. The SR took responsibility for permanent way and signalling while the LMS took over operation of the line."

 

If the LMS took over the operation of line, I wonder why the coaches weren't painted in LMS colours? I guess that by 1938, all coaches had been repainted green with Southern writing though. 

 

As the original S&D coaches were withdrawn, what replaced them? From the same book, plate 112 says that the coaches on a Evercreech Junction to Highbridge train on 4 August 1952 are ex-LMS compartment stock. This is a few years after nationalisation though. As the LMS was responsible for operations, did they provide the coaches which were then painted green? 

I can't imagine anyone built new coaches specifically for the S&D after 1930, so any replacements were probably cascaded down from either the LMS or SR. There seem to be very few photos of this period and I'm not good at coach recognition or determining colour from a black and white photo.

Does anyone know where I can find further information on coaches in this period?
 

 

[Compound2632]

24 minutes ago, RobAllen said:

Is there any information on what coaches were used on the line for local services in the late 1930s/early 1940s and what livery they carried?

 

I'm sure there are others with much more profound knowledge but one book I have that covers this period to some extent is Stephen Austen, Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway A View From the Past (Ian Allan, 1999). There one sees three-coach sets of Southern ex-LSWR corridor carriages - brake third / composite / brake third, 56 ft vehicles I think - for local trains on the main line, and LMS non-corridor stock on the branch, often a lavatory composite paired with a brake third, and with an SR 4-wheel PBV thrown in for good luck. S&DJR No. 28, the composite converted to third class driving trailer, seems to have remained at work on the Wells branch motor train until withdrawal in early 1946, being replaced by an ex-LNWR driving trailer and eventually a standard LMS vehicle, as discussed in another topic in this sub-forum:

 

I think it is fairly clear that the SR and LMS stock used retained its SR and LMS livery. This was all the culmination of the decision in 1913 to stop building carriages at Highbridge with renewals being supplied by the owning companies.

 

By-the-way, doing some further research, I've come to realise that non-bogie passenger carriages went to the LMS, some 35 6-wheel thirds and 4 6-wheel composites having been withdrawn in the late 1920s.

 

I've asked today in a couple of places if there are any known/published photos of ex-S&DJR carriages in the 1930s, especially of odd vehicles such as the 4-wheel inspection saloon No. 32A / SR 440S and the various 6-wheel saloons.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Compound2632

[RobAllen]

Thanks Stephen, I have added that book to my Christmas wish list. The family are always saying that they don't know what to get me…

[RobAllen]

Now, I need to find a close enough approximation in the RTR market…

[Compound2632]

3 minutes ago, RobAllen said:

Now, I need to find a close enough approximation in the RTR market…

 

The new EFE LSWR carriages are close but non-corridor.

 

The LMS lavatory non-corridor carriages, in their Period 2 guise, were made by Airfix and latterly Dapol, should be easy enough to find second-hand. For the LMS non-lavatory, non-corridor stock, Hornby do some superb models of the Period 3 versions.

[RobAllen]

2 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

The LMS lavatory non-corridor carriages, in their Period 2 guise, were made by Airfix and latterly Dapol, should be easy enough to find second-hand. For the LMS non-lavatory, non-corridor stock, Hornby do some superb models of the Period 3 versions.

 

I'm fortunate to have some LMS coaches from my dad - all in LMS crimson lake, so I was happy to read "I think it is fairly clear that the SR and LMS stock used retained its SR and LMS livery." :)

I'm considering getting an SR liveried set to cover that side of the Joint-ness.

 

[Compound2632]

I should qualify my off-the-cuff response by recommending Mike King's Southern Coaches Survey: Pre-Grouping and BR Mk 1 Stock which I have recently obtained. As well as describing the SR service of the ex-S&DJR bogie carriages, he gives a brief outline of the usage of ex-LSWR and SR stock on the main line and the branch.

[RobAllen]

An Historical & Modelling Guide to the Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway from the SDRT has has some comments for coaches between 1931 and 1947:

 

"Some of the Somerset and Dorset stock was used on the stopping services between Bournemouth and Bath, but Southern stock replaced it quite soon. The Branch received demoted stock."

"General services on the S&D were later dominated by SR (Maunsell and Bulleid) and LMS (Period I, II and III) designs. A number of ex-LSWR and MR coaches also appeared. Train lengths were generally three, four or six coaches for the main line stopping services, and only two or three for the Branch. Many excursion trains included at least one LNER Gresley brake composite usually next to the engine. Livery changes in this period, followed the particular owning company's style, as appropriate."