Toplight corridor stock in 1950's

[petrox]

Although the Dapol Mainline & City stock looks excellent, I am waiting in hope for the corridor versions - maybe just a couple for my South Devon inspired layout, a K22 full brake and a brake third and/or a third.

 

I have some photo evidence of Toplights still in use in 1955-57 period, but is there any info available for when these coaches were finally withdrawn, or what trains they might have been seen on? (I know Rule 1 could always be invoked, but i would prefer it if history  could back me up).

 

Many thanks in advance for any info.

 

Pete

[Neal Ball]

23 minutes ago, petrox said:

Although the Dapol Mainline & City stock looks excellent, I am waiting in hope for the corridor versions - maybe just a couple for my South Devon inspired layout, a K22 full brake and a brake third and/or a third.

 

I have some photo evidence of Toplights still in use in 1955-57 period, but is there any info available for when these coaches were finally withdrawn, or what trains they might have been seen on? (I know Rule 1 could always be invoked, but i would prefer it if history  could back me up).

 

Many thanks in advance for any info.

 

Pete

A lot were scrapped around that sort of time….

 

If you have diagram numbers to hand of the ordinary stock, have a look here: http://www.gwrcoaches.org.uk/index.html

 

For instance the D56 brake 3rds were withdrawn in the period 1956 to 1964

 

Hope that helps

Neal.

 

 

[Harlequin]

Longworth's book lists all the stock that entered BR service and when every vehicle that did was withdrawn:

https://www.abebooks.co.uk/9780860936756/British-Railways-GWRLNER-Pre-Nationalisation-Coaching-0860936759/plp

 

[Nick Gough]

Around 20 K22s survived into the early 1960s, with the last (W1144W) withdrawn in December 1962.

 

As Neal says, a number of passenger toplights survived into the early 1960s. The Longworth book mentioned, by Harlequin, gives the best info.

 

 

 

 

[Miss Prism]

Some of the last toplights weren't 'toplights' anymore. (Plated over.)

 

[petrox]

Thanks for the info - looks as though I can easily justify a K22, and will I look back at some photos of other diagrams.

 

Thanks again.

Pete 

 

Answering my own question to some extent, browsing through various books, i have found the following photos of Toplights in trains in the mid-1950's:

 

May 1955 & August 1956 - D56 Brake third, Dainton bank

July 1956 -  Third, Kingswear carriage sidings

Aug. 1954 - D56, Tiverton Junction

March 1957 - K22, Paddington

August 1957 - D56?, Bittaford 

May 1958 - D56?, near Leamington

Sep. 1957 - Composite?, Uphill Junction

Jan. 1955 / April 1958 / Oct. 1958 - 70' Brake third

Also surprisingly a couple of Concertina Brake third - May 1955 Dainton / August 1956 Dainton

 

Anyway I feel comfortable to have a coupe of Toplights on my layout - just need Dapol to do their bit now!

Pete

 

Edited December 18, 2023 by petrox

[Coach bogie]

Typical example of a Toplight as withdrawn from BR service. Available for all to see at Watchet. As Miss Prism states, the toplight windows were often plated over. This process was started by the GWR with many of the oldest toplights returning from action in the First World War that needed rebuilding for further service. The other thing to watch out for is bogie changes. I am running a C32 on 7ft Colletts which it received in the 1930's and there are other switches as well. This is also a bonus as it allows variations to be produced from a single model. Reliable dated photographs are invaluable here.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

[The Stationmaster]

On 16/12/2023 at 16:09, Miss Prism said:

Some of the last toplights weren't 'toplights' anymore. (Plated over.)

 

Were any of them still Toplights by then I wonder?  and not just the top lights but also body panrels had been repladed so they were quite substantially altered in appearance.  When I took a detailed look at them for a manufacturer a good long time back I couldn't find a single mid 1950s photo of one in original appearance, every one I found had something done to it.  

 

I think the last one to retain any top lights was W 139, the whitewash coach, which still had some when first in BR lined maroon.  and of course many of those taht were still around only ever saw any work in the Summer peak of about 5-6 weekends a year

[Miss Prism]

I haven't done the browsing through books as Petrox has done, but my guess is that the last Toplights were a bit of a mixture, with some of them looking a bit more like Toplights than others. In a sense though, that mid-50s look is an irrelevance, and anyone expecting Dapol to roll out patched and plated things just because they need them for their modelling period is going to be disappointed. Dapol, I'm sure, will go for the as-built look. If they start plating over everything, they will merely look, pointlessly, like Colletts with door ventilators.

 

The one diagram that does last as built (or as near as dammit) is the lovely K22.

 

 

Edited December 20, 2023 by Miss Prism
I had to mention the K22!

[Nick Gough]

11 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

Typical example of a Toplight as withdrawn from BR service. Available for all to see at Watchet. As Miss Prism states, the toplight windows were often plated over. This process was started by the GWR with many of the oldest toplights returning from action in the First World War that needed rebuilding for further service. The other thing to watch out for is bogie changes. I am running a C32 on 7ft Colletts which it received in the 1930's and there are other switches as well. This is also a bonus as it allows variations to be produced from a single model. Reliable dated photographs are invaluable here.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

 

Do you have a source of info for these bogie changes Mike?

[rovex]

3 hours ago, Miss Prism said:

I haven't done the browsing through books as Petrox has done, but my guess is that the last Toplights were a bit of a mixture, with some of them looking a bit more like Toplights than others. In a sense though, that mid-50s look is an irrelevance, and anyone expecting Dapol to roll out patched and plated things just because they need them for their modelling period is going to be disappointed. Dapol, I'm sure, will go for the as-built look. If they start plating over everything, they will merely look, pointlessly, like Colletts with door ventilators.

 

The one diagram that does last as built (or as near as dammit) is the lovely K22.

 

 

 At last some common sense. 

[ikcdab]

12 hours ago, Coach bogie said:

Available for all to see at Watchet.

Actually its at Blue Anchor. There are three coaches there, I'm not sure when your picture was taken, but the middle one of the three has been recently heavily (and sypathetically) restored as a camping coach.

[Coach bogie]

2 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

 

Do you have a source of info for these bogie changes Mike?

Stock Registers (a good friend copied them at Swindon in the 1970's) and images. If you look through Russell, many alternative bogies appear in the images. 7ft Collett, 9ft plate 8ft and 9ft Americans in addition to the fishbellies.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[2251]

On 20/12/2023 at 18:28, The Stationmaster said:

Were any of them still Toplights by then I wonder?  and not just the top lights but also body panrels had been repladed so they were quite substantially altered in appearance.  When I took a detailed look at them for a manufacturer a good long time back I couldn't find a single mid 1950s photo of one in original appearance, every one I found had something done to it.  

 

I think the last one to retain any top lights was W 139, the whitewash coach, which still had some when first in BR lined maroon.  and of course many of those taht were still around only ever saw any work in the Summer peak of about 5-6 weekends a year

 

And to say that the "whitewash" coach was atypical would be an understatement: