Oldhaven Harbour. New build, new modeller. Comments and Criticism welcome (n gauge)

[St Enodoc]

13 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

the other end, Gare Maritime at Dieppe, was far more attractive than the dog’s breakfast at Newhaven

With some very nice restaurants/cafes on the street to the left.

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, ngaugenic said:

What is happening in the middle I don't know yet.

I'd separate the ferry terminal and hotel, putting the hotel on the left where the terrace housing block is now. A bit like Dover's Lord Warden Hotel but on a smaller scale.

[Schooner]

On 06/01/2024 at 23:30, Nearholmer said:

 

PS: I suspect that Schooner may be mixing up Newhaven Harbour station and Newhaven Harbour (Boat), later Newhaven Marine, stations. Nowadays, if you want to catch the boat, you have to get off at Newhaven Town, of course!

 

With intent I'm afraid - it looked the most interesting/flexible 800'x200' chunk of Newhaven (at first glance!).

 

11 hours ago, ngaugenic said:

removing a lot

Normally the way forwards - if in doubt take it out!

 

1 hour ago, Nearholmer said:

What date is this set in?

On 01/01/2024 at 17:32, ngaugenic said:

set in 1950s/60s early BR

 

 

11 hours ago, ngaugenic said:

Features I've necessarily included

All good additions, and overall a marked improvement :)

 

Some things still jar a little, and I think it'd be worth investigating:

• A route from the rear entry/exit line to the dock/goods facilities - this would be the connection to the rest of the world.
  • The forward entry/exit line then becomes an internal line to the rest of the dock system
  • Your freight arr/dep track then naturally falls between the two, making flow of track easier to achieve
  • This allows for significantly more traffic, greater traffic variety, and a whole new class of train to deal with. Hello play value :)
• Starting with a clear 3-part goods system of loop, yard and quay. Once happy with these, then you can look at filling any gaps with sidings for special traffic, or a scenic focus etc

Practicing what I preach, an example might look like

 

Once happy that the bones of the layout meet your needs and wants - and the 'beginning, middle and end' of the narrative arc of an operating session convinces - the fun extras can be added, neat little track formations worked out, signature features developed etc.

 

For example, the above is okay, but the 'internal' entry/exit radius is too tight. The sorting yard looks big enough, but if it's an area of operational interest it'd be better to have it front-left, not rear-left. No clear spaces for the distinctive Newhaven sheds - although there clearly is room for them etc etc etc.

 

If it makes you feel any better, I spent a good year planning my layout, two years building it, and I'm still finding things to improve. And it's only an inglenook. And it uses @Harlequin's track plan! The point is, it's never perfect, but it's much easier to get it 'good enough' now than later :)

 

HTH

 

PS.

Setts on Ingleford were embossed using one of these: 

Between the rails is DAS air-drying modelling clay; between tracks is 3mm polystyrene foam (like kebab-shop boxes...my friends tell me...). The latter looks really good I reckon, the former is alright. The tool is simplicity itself to use.

 

[ngaugenic]

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For example, the above is okay, but the 'internal' entry/exit radius is too tight. The sorting yard looks big enough, but if it's an area of operational interest it'd be better to have it front-left, not rear-left. No clear spaces for the distinctive Newhaven sheds - although there clearly is room for them etc etc etc.

 

If it makes you feel any better, I spent a good year planning my layout, two years building it, and I'm still finding things to improve. And it's only an inglenook. And it uses @Harlequin's track plan! The point is, it's never perfect, but it's much easier to get it 'good enough' now than later :)

Both curves are at 25cm radius, so above 9 inch and the advertised 24cm minimum, and if it's past the manufacturers tolerance it's guaranteed to work, right!?

 

Everyone's help so far has been great, I can already feel my second revision will be a lot more fun than my first attempt.  Getting used to "planning" rather than just enjoying other's layouts is quite a learning curve.

 

I'll try to bring the sidings in front of the engine shed and build in more of a scenic break on the left hand side. 

 

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I'd separate the ferry terminal and hotel, putting the hotel on the left where the terrace housing block is now. A bit like Dover's Lord Warden Hotel but on a smaller scale.

 

 

Alternatives; perhaps a dockers' greasy spoon cafe, or a car park.  One is assuming there is no Ro-Ro facility, but the ships will probably be able to take a small number of cars craned into the hold.  Backscene up the hill to the left or your low relief terraced housing; hotels and guest houses for travellers wanting to get an early boat or coming off a late one.  The port will handle general cargo as well, so there could be a warehouse for this, 

 

Good idea for a hotel, this also allows a for bit of height in the centre of the layout, and a warehouse of some type also makes sense!

[Schooner]

11 hours ago, ngaugenic said:

Both curves are at 25cm radius, so above 9 inch and the advertised 24cm minimum, and if it's past the manufacturers tolerance it's guaranteed to work, right!?

Critiquing my plan, not yours! :)

[ngaugenic]

Oldhaven Rev 3:  I'm quite happy with this line up and managed to include a single in/out line that swoops around to an arrivals/departure line .  This siding is 44cm in physical length which would allow for approx 7 vehicles, tank, brake and 5 trucks more or less.  Once the incoming train is in the siding a dock side shunter (03) would break down the train through the quayside run arounds and the sidings to the left.  Some trucks would be left quayside for a watery departure via a rail crane or unloading directly onto a ship.  Some would be left by the station to be transferred to road.  During these operations the tank would rest up in the loco shed or assist with shunting.

 

The passenger operations to the north would see a loco and 1 or 2 coaches intially and then when finances allow an emu perhaps to vary the incoming traffic.

 

I'd love to have the space to have room for an exit and return on the right hand side but that will be new-oldhaven at some point in the future!

 

The signal box is set by the entrance and exit from the block, signalling will be the next challenge, but the majority is going to be static ground signals governing the freight operations.  The passenger section and through road I imagine would be on "proper" signals..?

Edited January 8 by ngaugenic
info

[The Johnster]

6 hours ago, ngaugenic said:

Some trucks would be left quayside for a watery departure via a rail crane

 

Hmm.  Contents craned into ships' holds, certainly, but craning the entire wagon aboard would be very unusual, unless it was new for export. 

 

 

6 hours ago, ngaugenic said:

The signal box is set by the entrance and exit from the block, signalling will be the next challenge, but the majority is going to be static ground signals governing the freight operations.  The passenger section and through road I imagine would be on "proper" signals..?

 

You may be overthinking this.  You'll need fixed signals for the running line, a home out to the left beyond the road crossing (for sighting if it's a bridge, and to protect a level crossing if that's what is needed), a four-way splitter*, starters for all three platform roads and off the yard access.  Ground signals are needed at the loco release crossover and subsidiary to the starters to allow shunting into the section behind departing trains.  And that's about it; the rest of the track plan is dock sidings, a yard area controlled by handsignals from staff on the ground under the authority of the yard and loco shed foremen.  A sprung hand-point with a foot pedal that can be held over by the shunter's body weight against the spring will be required to give access to the loco shed.

 

Personal opinion for you to take no notice of if you don't agree, but I can't see the need for or why the railway company would have gone to the expense of providing the 'ladder' of turnouts and the double slip which seems to be for the purpose of allowing direct access to the loco shed from all three of the quayside roads.  This move can be accomplished via the turnouts at each end, and as this area is likely to be 'inset' into the roadway surface of the quayside, a double slip will be hard work!

 

Thinking about small space-filling buildings, the Transport Police need accommodating as well, as do the GPO.  HM Customs & Exise are probably situated in the transfer shed, as are Immigration/Passport Control.  

 

 

*Or a single post with a theatre or stencil route indicator.  This signal needs a subsidiary disc as well for shunting purposes.

[ngaugenic]

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You may be overthinking this.

I'll take that as a compliment, but in reality almost everything here is the product of underthinking!

 

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protect a level crossing if that's what is needed

It's intended to be a level crossing, I'm avoiding gradients in this build.

 

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A sprung hand-point with a foot pedal that can be held over by the shunter's body weight against the spring will be required to give access to the loco shed.

Why does the loco shed get special protection?  And shunter here means the man on the ground right?

 

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This move can be accomplished via the turnouts at each end, and as this area is likely to be 'inset' into the roadway surface of the quayside, a double slip will be hard work!

That's very true, the ladder would be there for flexibility in shunting operations if some part of the quayside is occupied.  The lower double slip could be crossing though...

 

Many thanks for your input @The Johnster, I can only imagine the number of times you've explained this to someone new to the modelling world!