Moving soon 20x10 N gauge

[njee20]

You said era 7 LNER, but era 7 is BR diesel era, do you just mean ECML based? 
 

List out the features you want conceptually (main line running, station, junction, flying junction, yard, sidings, branch line etc etc), ideally force ranked, then you can think about the different elements and how they hang together.
 

The world is your lobster in that space. I preferred your previous design, this one is a big change, so I think spending time thinking about what you want will be pivotal to success. Otherwise you risk just endlessly drawing ideas on paper and never progressing. 
 

To consider is also the level of effort in a layout of that size. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

And  one more thing, the landscaping. In the space proposed, realistic terrain rising and falling relative to rail level is possible. Open frame construction is more flexible than a 'baseboard' approach,  and more easily supports a broad notch arrangement in the corners of the operating area, so it isn't an impossible 4 foot reach to the back of the corner.

[AndyB]

I was just refreshing my memory of Era 7 as @njee20 was writing his thoughts.

 

One book that might be worth a look is Isin Rice's Mainlines in Modest Spaces. I quite fancied his garage-filling N gauge LNER layout based on Dunblane. But that was steam era. And I think we'd need to clarify the OP's intent.

[Camps Junction]

Thanks again guys for all this, Time is not an issue as retired at 55 after a bike crash now at 60, At present I live next to a narrow gauge steam station, But I grew up opposite Musswell Hill depot in Wood Green and allways said if i ever get the time to do a decant size layout I’d like to re-create that but it’s just to complex.

My wants are 1. ERA 7 which yes i remember its early Br, 2, Main line with a branch, 3, Fiddle yard in view not like an exhibition layout, 4, To also be able to run a constant loop while using the yard and depot, I built 3 or 4 small layouts in my childhood but nothing on this scale thus far but I like a challenge, Just need as you guys have said to fit what I love in the size available. Drew.

[AndyB]

Hi Drew,

So I think Era 7 relates to 1972 to 1982. 

https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/techniques/uk-model-railway-eras-explained/

 

Based on that, if you haven't already had a loook, you might get inspiration from this site:

https://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/

 

Different scale to your N gauge layout, but lots of interesting layouts to mull over. 

 

Andy

[Camps Junction]

Hi Andy, Thanks for that info I’ve had a look,The  Hornsby Broadway and Holmworth I really like the look of, Been look at workshops on the internet I thought if I went for 20x12 would give me a lot more scope and room and only extra £150 for the 12 ft wide over the 10, No problem with space at the new place as garden is mahoosive ,

[RobinofLoxley]

While you are thinking, see below a template for the layout size, firstly reduced from your gross measurements to allow for insulation, and secondly showing boards of 80cm depth all round the perimeter as you have indicated. I use 80cm becaue the reach into the corners is much more than that, and standing in the corner stretching at an angle isnt as easy as facing front on. Remember you are going to be building  stuff at that dstance not just leaning over to rerail something.

 

Included in the drawing is an allowance for a door, and then showing where bridging sections as mentioned might be placed. The bridge over the doorway depends on whether the door opens in or out, a typical subject that comes up for closed room layouts. The yellow bridge can be in various places, it can cross at an angle too. The lift out part doesnt have to be full length, but the fixed part will be in the way at times, although it opens up a lot of possibilities.

 

Last is the section of third radius code 80 setrack which shows at 80cm boards that theres room to turn but not much else, in the corners.

 

Again , as has been said elsewhere, would be looking to create changes of level on this plan, no question.

[AndyB]

@RobinofLoxley all good points about reach and stretch. To that end would it be an idea to cut the internal and external corners ?

 

[RikkiGTR]

One of the most impressive plans I’ve seen is David Jenkinson’s abandoned “Little Long Drag” 4mm (EM) scale layout. 
That was 36ft x 16ft so working in N Gauge you have more space than even he had then (40 x 20ft scaled up). 
 

I’m making my own “dream” layout in an 8 x 10ft garden shed in N Gauge, a plan I’m very happy with. 
 

I’m curious what you eventually come up with because that kind of space is almost unheard of and the scope is incredible. Following with interest. 

[TonyMay]

I still think a short lift-out section over the door would be better than having it go back on yourself.  It only has to be 4 cm wide, hinged at one end, and the length of a person.

 

Also, think about the location of the door or doors.  Is the door definitely going to be located in the middle of one of the long sides, or do you offset it to one side?

 

The ECML is partly double track, partly triple track, and partly quadruple track.  And it's very long, with different characteristics in different places.  Some of it is very flat and would require minimal baseboard work.  Other bits aren't.  Where exactly on this 400 mile long line is it going to be set?  Another question is how many tracks do you need?

[Camps Junction]

Hi again all , So been looking on the shed sight ,For an extra £150 I can go from 10x20 to 12x20 allowing more scope and also has a side door access aswell as double door at the front, So taking all what you have said I’ve spent the morning on Anyrail this is what I’ve come up with, So instead of having two HELIX units at the front edge I’ve added a main line station with the HELIX unit at either either end of that,With tunnel access at the end of the 20ft mainline stretch so mainlines can run interrupted if I want, With room for small goods yard and Loco shed and yard and a small fiddle yard, Now with this shed having a small side door I’ve added a hinged lift up section for access, Also there is knowhere on the whole layout that reach access is more than 2ft6, 

This allows a Branch line to run with its own station, This gives a 103 sections of code 55 flexi ( which I allready have) and 26 points, This is by far from finished but do you think this would work ?.? Thanks Drew.

Edited February 22 by Camps Junction

[RobinofLoxley]

I dont understand what is happenning with the tunnels top left and top right.

[Camps Junction]

Hi bud there HELIX units at each end.

 

[RobinofLoxley]

3 minutes ago, Camps Junction said:

Hi bud there HELIX units at each end.

 

OK. So you need to allow the necessary space  for them, and ensure that the descending track has clearance to pass under whatever it has to pass under, on the first turn. Will need considerable surgery to the recently posted plan. You can do Helices in Anyrail takes a bit of getting your head round though.

[njee20]

Where did the helices come from?! That’s a huge extra level of complexity. In N, with our often underpowered stock, it’ll heavily compromise train length too, which feels a shame when you’ve got so much space. 
 

I prefer this plan FWIW, but I’d think extremely carefully about helices. 

[RobinofLoxley]

4 minutes ago, njee20 said:

Where did the helices come from?! That’s a huge extra level of complexity. In N, with our often underpowered stock, it’ll heavily compromise train length too, which feels a shame when you’ve got so much space. 
 

I prefer this plan FWIW, but I’d think extremely carefully about helices. 

plenty of room for wide spirals in this case, so the gradients can be gentle but then they might compromise other aspects

[ITG]

Well, I wish you well, but as someone who is mid-jump from a simple twin-track roundy with high level branch in 00, in 11’x6’ (so 34’ room and layout perimeter) to a new space of 17’x 8’ (50’ perimeter), with a more complex track plan, I can tell you, it is challenging and time consuming. By this I mean the multi discipline tasks of woodwork, electrics, track laying etc. before you even get to scenery. When I think that your N plan of 20’x12’ equates to at least 40’x24’ (so theoretically 128’ perimeter) in 00, that is almost 4 times my old size and 2.5 times the new one, there is no doubt that you’d be advised for this to be a looooong term plan before any trains are seen running.

These mathematics are simplified - and thus probably understated - as one should also consider baseboard area not just room perimeter.

Good luck, fingers crossed for you.

Ian

[njee20]

33 minutes ago, RobinofLoxley said:

plenty of room for wide spirals in this case, so the gradients can be gentle but then they might compromise other aspects

It doesn’t really matter too much. Be ok for passenger trains, but even 1% gradients will challenge N gauge locos if you aspire to having long freights. 

[Camps Junction]

Thanks guys this was only what’s going around in my head with all the comments but I’ll get there track wise I picked up 6 box’s of code 55 at early earlyer on in the years one of the traders think was KMS did me a really good deal, I will keep working away at the design, We are moving to the new house on the 2nd of April and I wreckon it will be 2nd of May buy the time the shed base is in with the shed up and insulated, So 12 weeks before I start the frame work fork the layout, As for the build spent most my life as a carpenter, Apart from a 7 year break as electronics tech for one of the big phone company’s, That was before a big motorcycle crash,  It doesn’t phase me this build but I won’t rush it also very fussy but will do pics as I go, Best wishes Drew.

[njee20]

What’s on the lower layer though if you’re set of the helix design? A fiddle yard? Don’t build a layout like this based on the track you have at hand.  

[RobinofLoxley]

Drew, with the size of layout you must plan pretty carefully as you are doing. If you try and wing the construction it will be a very frustrating project.

 

One thing though, the scale factor in laying track isnt 1:2 compared to 00; a piece of flexi is the same length in each scale. It will be assembling complex sections where the scale kicks in. Its a big space.

[Camps Junction]

Thanks guys , Yes I’m basically spending as much time as poss working all this out, Still got around 12 weeks before I can get started, I guess once all the shed is finished and I see it empty for the last time that space will look massive , This last design I quite like but my only real concern is running the HELIX but with this space I now have and extra 2ft going from 10x20 to 12x20 with the side door throws many more options open, But I’m sure I’ll get there I’m sure knowone ever gets a 100% perfect but I’ll settle for 99%🤣When the shed goes up that’s when I’ll start a build post on here , Really appreciate all the feedback and ideas that everyone has chipped in with 👍 Back to the drawing board or should that be laptop and Anyrail 

[TonyMay]

People are telling you to apply the KISS principle - keep it simple, because quite frankly, they don't think you'll finish it.  Forget about "getting it 99% right" -- you're headed towards about 20%, and it won't work.

 

Consider getting some help.  There might be another retired bloke who lives near you with an interest but not enough space of his own who is able to help and become your mate.  Or, as you seem to have enough cash, and there are guys who can help you, e.g. Professional Layout Services - professional model railway design and construction. Model railway and train set manufacturers. (http://www.pls-layouts.co.uk)

 

You've been told that grades in N are not desirable. The light weight of N gauge stock means they struggle to climb grades.  Remember that when reducing the scale, you're reducing in three dimensions, so it decreases as the cube root of the ratio size.  N is a lot worse than 00.  This is why modellers are always trying to get weight into anywhere they can.  It would also put the fiddle yard in an inconvenient location, under the main board.  You're going to try to build it, but then discover it doesn't work.

 

You've got enough space to allocate 5 feet or so off the 20ft where you have the "branch line station" on the above plan.  Double track on the rest, rather than quad, to keep it simpler, and you've got quite an extensive run to run your Deltics and Mk 2s.

 

Consider first building a 1-2 baseboards, with temporary fiddle yards at each end.  So you can get something up and running.  It doesn't matter that it won't take up the whole footprint of the shed.  That can come later.

Edited February 23 by TonyMay

[Camps Junction]

Thanks Tony , As for help not a chance as I live in the Cambrian mountains I see more sheep than people, lol, Yes I am taking everything on board, I wonder how many people start there layout and end up with a completely different track plan by the time they finish it,  I must of watched 100 layout s +  builds on you tube over the last 6 months you would think I could have some sort of idea after all that,  Where we are moving to in April there is a Model Railway club I’m told so I may well join and go down and have chat with them, When Im doing these layouts on Anyrail in the back of mind I’m still wanting to do the yard opposite where I used to live at Woodgreen ( see pic ) But I just couldn’t build it into layouts just because of the area size , 

[RobinofLoxley]

It depends how you approach it; I think you have mentioned this site before??

 

A couple of years back we had a thread involving someone who wanted to model Hornsey Shed, just down the road from this; he got a really great plan from@Harlequin of this parish, but the hardest bit was persuading them to reduce the number of shed roads to enable a feasible plan.

 

In this case, there are certain problems; mainly how to represent the ECML which has all kinds thundering past 24/7, while modelling the yard and the Hertford branch. As long as you are prepared to prune the yard a bit you are in with a shout, and certainly having something to design and build against will always be better than something out of the imagination. 

 

For example; in your era there wasnt any freight going on there,  you could lose most of those roads and change the curvature of the main lines and overbridge as they pass. Instead of six roads in the carriage (?) sheds reduce to four.

 

My area too, used to frequent the pedestrian bridge at Oakleigh Park, 2 stops to the left, as the A4's chuntered past underneath.