Old Hornby class 47

[mor100]

Afternoon all

Can anyone offer some advice about old Hornby Ringfields please. I’ve just serviced one and I’m happy with the running except when it starts- it jumps from stationary to about half speed with nothing in between(!) could it be the springs and brushes? Thanks, Matt 

[andyman7]

Which version of the Ringfield motor is it? The pre 1977 version in a white housing with metal faceplate or the black one with the silver strip brush arms on the front?

[mor100]

Hi, thanks - it’s the black one with silver arms. 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Once it is running, how well does it respond to power reduction? The slowest stable crawl it can maintain will be the best start speed it can manage.

 

I wouldn't worry about the electrical side, it runs so that must be OK. Most likely cause is wear in the bearings and gears that has to be overcome on starting, by a motor with pretty feeble torque. These mechanisms were intended for kid's trainset operation, like fast...

[ISW]

On 07/02/2024 at 15:21, mor100 said:

Afternoon all

Can anyone offer some advice about old Hornby Ringfields please.

Have you considered re-motoring with a CD-ROM motor? I've done quite a few of my 'older' (~1980s) Hornby & Lima locos, that has improved their running no end.

 

You can get 'kits' for the swap or, as I did, just use DIY. In the case of Hornby you have to glue the drive cog onto the motor shaft. I just used superglue. To install the CD-ROM in the old motor 'case' you can get 'proper' fitting kits, but hot-melt glue was okay for me.

 

Here's what an old Hornby Class 25 motor looks like after re-motoring:

 

 

It's always an option. There are plenty of YouTube videos showing the steps, tricks, and pitfalls to avoid.

 

Ian

[Simon G]

I dont imagine that the problem would lie with the brushes and springs, as I have never had issue with them.
 

The first thing that I would look at is how freely the driving wheels spin with the Ringfield drive cogs disconnected.  In servicing a number of Ringfields, I have found that a common issue is that the axles spin inside a brass sleeve and they can get a little stiff.  The solution is dead easy - remove a wheel from the axle and then pull the axle out of the sleeve.  I then rub the axle with a very fine emery to clean it, oil it lightly and reassemble.

[cypherman]

Hi,

I concur with ISW a CD motor swap would make all the difference. I have done several with great results. I have used the kits from Strthpeffer Junction. I have found them very helpful with any problems. Well the only problem I had was I cut a chunk of the plastic gear off. They replaced it with no charge. In fact they sent me 4 just incase.

https://www.strathpefferjunction.com/product-category/ringfield-motor-conversion-kits/

[mor100]

Thanks all - very helpful and much appreciated.

[JDW]

13 hours ago, cypherman said:

Hi,

I concur with ISW a CD motor swap would make all the difference. I have done several with great results. I have used the kits from Strthpeffer Junction. I have found them very helpful with any problems. Well the only problem I had was I cut a chunk of the plastic gear off. They replaced it with no charge. In fact they sent me 4 just incase.

https://www.strathpefferjunction.com/product-category/ringfield-motor-conversion-kits/

Just to add another vote of satisfaction with the same supplier. I have a 4-car Lima 156 repowered with one of their motors and it runs fine. 

[Halvarras]

On 08/02/2024 at 21:35, Simon G said:

I dont imagine that the problem would lie with the brushes and springs, as I have never had issue with them.
 

The first thing that I would look at is how freely the driving wheels spin with the Ringfield drive cogs disconnected.  In servicing a number of Ringfields, I have found that a common issue is that the axles spin inside a brass sleeve and they can get a little stiff.  The solution is dead easy - remove a wheel from the axle and then pull the axle out of the sleeve.  I then rub the axle with a very fine emery to clean it, oil it lightly and reassemble.

 

I also clean the inside of the brass sleeve with a wooden cocktail stick pushed to and fro - dry to start with to see what comes out. This may be enough, but if there are stubborn deposits soaking the stick in white spirit and repeating the clean should cure it. Because the axle/sleeve interface is responsible for current collection at the motor end, the lubrication should use an electrically conductive oil such as Peco Power-Lube (PL-64) or equivalent - but sparingly of course!

Edited February 11 by Halvarras
Had to update the Peco oil's name - mine's still called Electro-Lube!

[fezza]

Are you using a feedback controller? My Gaugemaster feedback controller produces a massive improvement to the slow running capabilities of Ringfields

[vikingsmb]

just needs a service thats all, no need to use cd motor

[DCB]

The Hornby Ringfield should run better than that.  The  components are pretty good quality, especially the commutator and primary gear and I have  not had any issues.   I have done several CD conversions on Lima power bogies but only when commutators or primary gears maybe brush holders had failed.
The likely fault I would suggest is dirty trailing bogie wheels of poor contact on the trailing bogie pick up wires.
My 47 has a 28XX  tender drive chassis in its power bogie and Flying Scotsman |Powered Tender wheels (Lathe turned to remove the grooves)  in its trailing  bogie to get something like scale size wheels.   It has plenty of faults but leaping abruptly from stopped to 20 scale MPH is not one of them.

[stewartingram]

Another common fault is dirt on the axles. When servicing in the past  I would tear off a narrow strip of rag about 3-4" long , a tie a knot tightly on one end. The other end would be pushing through the axle holes in the main motor block, assisted with a cocktail stick. (Obviously the wheels/axles were removed first). The end of the rag could then be pulled through, with the knot cleaning the hole as it went through. Wipe the axles clean, apply a spot of electrolube to the axle to aid conductivity, and re-assemble the wheels. Add a spot of oil to the bearings - both ends - of the armature, NEVER 3-in-1 or WD40. Lovely motors that do not deserve the critism they get. The early metal ones were direct copied of Fleischmann mors which were even better, available on 47 and 9F locos.

[Halvarras]

2 hours ago, stewartingram said:

 The early metal ones were direct copied of Fleischmann mors which were even better, available on 47 and 9F locos.

 

I had a couple of those early metal-chassis 47s, they did run well although I wasn't convinced by the bogie pivoting arrangement and having pick-ups pushing the split-sleeve trailing bogie wheelsets apart was a ridiculous idea (variable back-to-backs?!) - I replaced these on mine with Silver Seal wagon wheels on steel axles, which made negotiating pointwork a tad more reliable!