Camden MPD Turntable late 50s early 60s

[Tim2014]

Short version:  If you have intimate knowledge of Camden turntable, or know where good pics might be found and you are happy to share, please read on...

 

I'm hoping the wonderful hive mind can help me out here...

One happy day I'll finish my Royal Scot and need somewhere to show it off.  Of course I'll need a layout too, but they take a really long time, so I thought a simple turntable in a yard would be good.  Patricroft looked like a good candidate, but then I discovered Camden - the ultimate location for a not-huge 7mm layout featuring lots of main line Stanier locomotives.

 

So I'm set on modelling the North end of Camden - probably from the Pembroke Castle down to a bit of the shed.  That'll keep me busy for a while, especially as I'll need to build the crossovers, but I'm starting with the table.

 

I obtained digital copies of the Cowans Sheldon & Co. drawings from the very helpful archivists at the Carlisle Archive center and started work in Fusion360.  (I love thinking about the fact that I'm tracing some unknown draughtsman's work almost 100 years later on the other side of the world!).  I was delighted with my 3D printed working center bearing and started to work on the geometry of the pathway and well.  It became clear early on that the real thing differs from the drawings sometimes, and now I've realised that there were a few changes from when it was installed in the 1930s to when I want to model it around 1960 (not that surprising).

 

So I'm after good reference pictures between 1958 and 62, to help clarify that:

1. The handrail stanchions at the vacuum end were replaced by sections of rail (or similar) for a beefier outlook on life.
2. Anything that shows how the deck area around the running on points was supported (ringed in red on the pic).  I cannot see from the engineering drawings how it was held up.  It almost looks like it rested on the top of the bearing blocks for the pathway wheels, but they are drawn quite clearly on one sheet and the shape of them doesn't really look they were load bearing (I've not done a great job of capturing them btw).  There is a good pic of 6202 on the table that tantalisingly hints at the structure, but I can't make it out.

 

Railscene No1 is what I'm aiming to capture, but just doesn't quite have the photo resolution I need, I'm just hoping someone may know where there are some high resolution shots from that vantage point.  Pics from the yard seem rare, no doubt because it must have been a pretty hectic and therefore dangerous place to be.

 

I do have a digital copy of LMS Steam at Euston & Camden and British Railways Illustrated's feature on Camden which has a great shot of City of Hereford, but anything else would be much appreciated!

[anroar53]

At least one photo on Flickr, there may be others.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/geoffsimages/26905327257/in/photolist-GZwQqH-6CSmyf-cR1pbA-e2QKdm-u724Sg-23quEJd-RfMQZZ-2iWrFBo-r2FSpV-ddYVUA-qC98En-b2Hjia-dY1oSi-8DQ9uN-Dk2WpR-2kUrDvA-2iPRyYd-6HSuVM-hisi9c-2iRzmcg-2iZxt77-FK6zaE-a5teoW-rJ1TUT-dj99zE-6F4keu-Zm8eZe-qBji9u-2iSxzSd-qSJSTB-Hi9Zxf-HgQKEx-bv4jUp-mT6USv-96yUDR-2iz7Mcv-hisi8R-c6sKKf-c6sKJs-buQMmS-6RMM5z-j9JMPp-89pkjG-2iz6tLE-akpkQh-dg9mtY-akmwVt-jbHCUm-hisi9n-szhsU

[LNER4479]

Have you checked out this thread?:

Unfortunately, like most of us, pictures pre-2023 were lost in the great server crash which includes everything on the previous version of his layout including the turntable. Mr 92220 of this parish (Iain Henderson) is a smashing chap and I'm sure would be able to either furnish you or point you in the direction of any source material you might require.

 

You might want to add your request onto Iain's thread, as his followers might not necessarily pick it up in this area of the forum.

[92220]

Thanks for connecting me to this thread, Graham.  And for such a kind intro!

Tim (I’ll make a wild assumption) - delighted to find this thread and happy to let you have any info that I have gleaned.  To say that I am interested in Camden 1960 might be an understatement, but to say I have intimate knowledge of the turntable is in turn an overstatement.  Most of what I have is printed material, with some on CD, and I can’t remember when I last had a computer with a CD or DVD drive.
 

I took the slightly easier (!) way out by heavily modifying a Peco OO turntable.  The long promised Metalsmiths Cowans and Sheldon 70’ turntable didn’t look like materialising 10 years ago and it’s even less likely now.  The Peco one is a touch long of course and has some different details but replacing all the handrails and building the platform with the vacuum apparatus on it seemed to give a passable imitation.  Being brutally honest, in comparison to yours, that is all it is: a passable imitation cobbled together from a few photos.

 

I don’t have many photos of the construction, but a few are below.

 

 

 

 

best wishes,

 

Iain

 

 

[Tim2014]

Thanks so much for alerting others and posting those, yes I had seen your thread Iain as it features prominently when googling steam and Camden :)

 

It really confirmed Camden was the setting to model and pointed me to the Steam Illustrated article too.  It's a real shame we have lost so many pics from the site so I really appreciate you taking those photos - and I think you're being a little modest - that's definitely a C&S 70ft table! It looks great! Building in CAD is easy, things can float in mid air and don't need to support loads! See how I go when I move into the world of hardware...

 

My sporadic research has shown that Perth (Scotland!) looks to have had the same style of turntable, and I was able to understand pushbar mechanicals from seeing a couple of other photos...so I think I'll get there from a design perspective now.  It's really just the vacuum platform and apparatus left to do. Though I'm not convinced about the handrail support girders on mine.  They are as per the drawings, but the diagonal angle looks off compared to the photos I've got.

And then there is the electricals to think about.  I'm torn between a stepper motor or powering via a wheel driven from under the vac platform as per the original.  And perhaps alignment via a threaded rod into the off road holes mirroring prototype again.  I fly RC planes and the gubbins from an RC retract has all the electrical and mechanicals I'd need for the alignment and locking.  Then either hall or magnets to get to within two mm of the road and have the locking pin take over.  But I'd better finish this stage before moving onto the next one!

 

Talking of which - I see you are tackling the crossings.  That was perhaps an extreme way to introduce myself to Templot!  Amazing program, I did at one point get the diamonds about right, but then broke them trying to sort out a point they lead to.  I really have no idea what I'm doing with the program yet I only started meddling over Christmas when I realised I couldn't do the crossings in Peco track!  I will watch you and learn :)

Cheers,
Tim 😃

Edited February 14 by Tim2014

[Tim2014]

On 11/02/2024 at 20:51, anroar53 said:

At least one photo on Flickr, there may be others.

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/geoffsimages/26905327257/in/photolist-GZwQqH-6CSmyf-cR1pbA-e2QKdm-u724Sg-23quEJd-RfMQZZ-2iWrFBo-r2FSpV-ddYVUA-qC98En-b2Hjia-dY1oSi-8DQ9uN-Dk2WpR-2kUrDvA-2iPRyYd-6HSuVM-hisi9c-2iRzmcg-2iZxt77-FK6zaE-a5teoW-rJ1TUT-dj99zE-6F4keu-Zm8eZe-qBji9u-2iSxzSd-qSJSTB-Hi9Zxf-HgQKEx-bv4jUp-mT6USv-96yUDR-2iz7Mcv-hisi8R-c6sKKf-c6sKJs-buQMmS-6RMM5z-j9JMPp-89pkjG-2iz6tLE-akpkQh-dg9mtY-akmwVt-jbHCUm-hisi9n-szhsU

I hadn't seen that photo, it's great and confirms what I had thought, the handrail support brackets are different on the real thing to the drawings.  Great, I can fix that.  Thanks, much appreciated.

Edited February 14 by Tim2014

[92220]

Hi Tim,

I will see about reuploading some of the photos from the past on my thread.  I also found a couple more of my turntable under construction:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Templot is a huge boon, yes.  Although its capabilities are so far beyond mine.  I have managed to insert the crosssings, shift timbers and extend the check rails so I am about to embark on building that section.  
 

Iain

[Tim2014]

Great pics! Thank you. I must drop the ends of my handrails and I will work on those rail stop (thingies, there must be a correct term!).  My son is 3D printing a first pathway wheel and a table top block so I'll post up some 'real world' stuff over the weekend hopefully.

[Tim2014]

Not quite the weekend, but still well timed by my laggardly standards 😀

 

The pivot works well, I don't think the pics need much explanation - they are quick 3D printed versions of what is in CAD. The white square bit isn't designed very well (from a 3D printing perspective) but sits on the assembled bits, and in CAD, it the bit that pokes up between the tracks, but final design will need more thought.  The race came from an RC helicopter.

 

So the test comes from balancing my Scot Stanier tender on it, minus chassis.  A little bit of faffing to stop it falling off and voila, the concept passes my 'hot air test'. 

 

The friction will only go up from here, but at least at this point, it's negligible and it's moved from software to hardware.  I'm really building a chassis now - four wheels on 4 axles running on a single circular rail.