Using Cobalt S Lever with Dapol Semaphore Signal in 0 Gauge

[brossard]

My 0 gauge layout is DCC using NCE.  There are several turnouts actuated by Wabbit accessory decoders.  There are momentary push buttons on both sides of the fascia for operation from either side.  There is one Dapol semaphore signal.  This has the Train Tech accessory decoder and works brlliantly and it even has arm bounce.  The only drawback is that actuation has to come from the throttle which I find somewhat tedious.  There is no momentary push button option.

 

 

For reference, taken when I was testing.

 

I have just got myself a pack of 6 Cobalt S levers.  Replacing the momentary push buttons I currently have with the lever momentary switches in the levers doesn't seem like rocket science.

 

Where I am stumped is how to use a lever to activate my semaphore.  Has anyone managed to do this?

 

Here's what DCC Concepts say:

 

 

It suggests that the servo can take DCC power directly which doesn't sound right.

 

John

[Dominion]

Hi John, I have had that quandary with the same equipment you list. The only difference being that I am in 4mm scale but the Dapol junction signals are Servi operated and the below baseboard parts look just like your O signal.

I first wired them up without DCC just using DC power and the S lever momentary contacts worked fine to trigger the signals. My memory says that they bounces just fine and I think that is a function of the Dapol servo signal, though I can’t be certain from memory.

 

I then switched to the train tech sensors to operate them as I wanted to build in a little automation from track sensors, either train tech’s optical sensor or occupancy detectors depending (for different lines).

 

I use an NCE mini panel to recieve the occupancy sensor input and trigger the appropriate DCC accessory command to work the train tech unit. And you could use a simple push button or S lever to trigger that mini panel input too. However that is a lot of electronics if you don’t have other uses for the 15 pairs of mini panel inputs. 
 

For your application it turns out I THINK that you can still just use the momentary S lever outputs directly between the yellow and brown or yellow and orange Dapol wires to operate the movement. It is a while ago that I wired it up, and I THINK that’s what I did. If you want to try it let me know and I will investigate my wiring before you do it just make sure. That method is just using the TrainTech module as a power source for the signal, and not actually the DCC command part of the electronics. 
Tom

Edited May 14 by Dominion
Typo

[brossard]

Thanks Tom for that.  From what you say, the simplest thing would be to dispense with Train Tech device and add a DC controller, that outputs AC, just for the signal.  I'm a simple goon after all.  I wanted to keep everything DCC though.

 

Perhaps the NCE mini panel might be of use although TBH, I have no idea what it does.  Perhaps similar to the DCC Concepts encoder (which I don't understand either).  Told you I was simple.

 

The DCC Concepts diagram above is confusing, saying that you can use 15V AC or DCC to power the servo.

 

Anyway, no rush, it is a project to be done between now and the layout's next show in August.

 

John

 

Edit:  just reviewed the Dapol instructions and it says to use 15VAC NOT 12VDC.  Is there some sort of device that converts DCC to AC?  I do have a Power Distribution board on my layout that takes DCC in and outputs 3VDC for lamps.  It will do 12VDC as well but not AC.

Edited May 14 by brossard

[brossard]

OK, I think I have my answer.  The Dapol signal manual that said to use 15VAC was found on line and could be obsolete.

 

Here is something from Dapol:

 

https://www.Dapol.co.uk/products/7l-001-001-o-gauge-semaphore-signal-gwr-home-square-post

 

This definitely says to use 12VDC for both the servo and lights.  Although, confusingly, 14VAC is still mentioned.

 

Gaugemaster article:

 

https://www.gaugemasterretail.com/rightlines-article/Dapol-semaphore-signals.html

 

So, the power management board:

 

https://tinyurl.com/yc36nky8

 

Will output 12VDC, so, it seems to me that I put the lever momentary switch in the circuit and it should work.  The lights can be connected to the constant 12VDC output from the board.

 

Am I missing something?

 

John

[BluenGreyAnorak]

I've recently wired up a Dapol 4mm junction signal to an S lever, which uses the same servo mechanism as your 7mm one. You're right about the DCC Concepts diagram being confusing so here's one that I sketched out, which may help. I'd definitely recommend a separate 12v DC power supply:

 

[brossard]

5 minutes ago, BluenGreyAnorak said:

I've recently wired up a Dapol 4mm junction signal to an S lever, which uses the same servo mechanism as your 7mm one. You're right about the DCC Concepts diagram being confusing so here's one that I sketched out, which may help. I'd definitely recommend a separate 12v DC power supply:

 

 

Thanks for taking the trouble to sketch that.  It looks sensible.  I said earlier that a separate 12VDC supply is simpler but it means lugging an extra controller around.  Not a big deal really.  I'd like to know from someone knowledgeable if the 12VDC output from the power distr. board is suitable for use with the servo.  It could be "dirty" but my lamps seem happy with it.

 

John

[brossard]

Today, I set up a rig to try out the lever and signal and to get the wiring straight.  This is the baseline.

 

Here's the result:

 

 

You wouldn't know I actually tidied up yesterday.

 

Anyway, lever set to "danger" and signal corresponds.

 

 

In this shot, the lever is set to "clear" and, again, the signal corresponds.

 

When resetting to danger, the arm bounces.

 

I initially followed the DCC Concepts diagram, posted above, but things only sort of worked.  I then used the Dapol instructions (happily I found the sheet) and all works as it should.

 

Power is from an old DC controller (handy things to have lying around).

 

Each lever has a wiring harness containing 9 wires.  These I soldered to the circuit board, but only the first three are used.  The other 6 are intended for ON ON switching.

 

Quite pleased.  No smoke.

 

John

[brossard]

I believe we now have an answer to the question originally posed.  Thanks to @Dominion for his patience and guidance.

 

The trick is to use the power output from the Train Tech accessory decoder.  Simple really.

 

I checked the actual output voltage:

 

 

DCC output from fascia panel to decoder input.  Turns out 9V is just about right.

 

 

System hooked up on the rig.  Only the two power wires are needed from the decoder.

 

 

Showing "clear" with the lever pulled back.

 

I am delighted.

 

John

[Dominion]

Great, glad it worked for you John.
 

The way I have mine wired still has the yellow brown orange wires also connected to the appropriate train tech outputs. It has been quite happy like that for 6 months. I can use the DCC command to operate them as the train tech unit is designed to do, but also use the momentary lever to operate them. 
They are functioning as 2 momentary switches in parallel, one DCC controlled, the other manual. If I am just watching the trains go round one sensor clears the signal in advance and another sensor sets it to danger the train passes. But if I feel like it I can operate the signal with a lever.