Fitting a motor to EFE Underground stock- advice wanted.

[Jak K-S]

Hi everyone, I would like to model part of the London Underground/North London Line and wanted to know of peoples experiences fitting motors to EFE London Underground stock e.g. any technical problems they might have had or tips for replacement wheels etc.

I've already looked at the Metromodels and Radley Models websites and have considered getting them to fit a black beetle unit but I'm also quite skint and therefore would like to do it myself if possible. I will probably start with a secondhand two car unit (salvaged from eBay or the likes) but may extend to four in the future.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated as I am returning to the hobby after a few years off.

Regards,

Jak

[Miss Prism]

It's a tricky area. One of the problems with the EFEs is that they don't roll well on their as-supplied bogies, so a single Black Beetle is likely to struggle with a 4-car set unless there is a lot of weight on top of the drive bogie. Fitting a Black Beetle will entail some chassis and floor/interior chopping. If you are into underfloor arrangements, I don't know how far Bill Bedford has got with his tube bogie design, but it is not dissimilar to http://clag.org.uk/tube-bogie.html, and intended to have transmissions as indicated in http://clag.org.uk/lpmu.html.

[GoingUnderground]

The Metromodels and Radley Models instructions are very similar, I have both, as there is really only one way to do it.

 

The normal motor is a Tenshodo SPUD, but it can only power a two car set, three at a real pinch. It projects a lot less into the carriage than a Black Beetle, so you can illiminate the interior without the motor being too noticeable. Don't expect them to climb ramps with a SPUD unless you add some ballast.

 

You can fit the motor bogie in any car at either end, but in my 4 car set, DM-T-NDM-DM both the SPUDs are in the NDM car wired in parallel with a single ZTC255 decoder, yup it runs on DCC. It has a ballast weight in it so that it can climb up my test ramp. The reason for fitting both motor bogies in a single car was that it left the other cars interiors' unaltered which I wanted to do as I have interior lighting, and made fitting a function only chip in the DM cars for the headcode and tail lights easier.

 

You will need to cut the diecast chassis to make room for the motor bogie. I used a Dremel cutting disc. Go carefully as you will be weakening the chassis.

 

I you fit SPUDs then just follow John Polley's or Phil Radley's instructions and you shouldn't go wrong. I don't know if they now have a set of instructions for fitting a Black Beetle, I haven't seen one, but hten I haven't been looking for one.

 

After that, the main problem is the friction generated by the non-powered bogies even after you have removed the spring clips inside each. Some fit new bogies, others fit a piece of wire in the bogie instead of the spring clip to reduce the friction area. I believe you can fit pinpoint bearings and new wheelsets if you're that dedicated - rather fiddly but it can be done so I was once told.

 

Further enhancements can include custom destination boards, interior lighting, working tail lights (needs more cutting of the chassis to remove the existing dummy tail lights, but is worth it), fully working headcode lights on '38 stock but that needs DCC, and all wheel pick-up from all cars, but you will need to devise pickups and conducting couplings for that. Additional enhancements can include repainting the interior in true LT Cerulean Blue, and, if you're really sad, replacing the terrible EFE adverts and line diagrams with proper period adverts and line diagrams - it is possible, but you have to be really, really, sad like me to get into that sort of interior detailing. I went down this route after seeing Tim Steven's truly excellent City Road layout where he had interior lighting in the cars and had the layout close to eye-level - Very, very impressive if you're an LT nut like me. I'll try to dig out some pictures of my stock and of City Road and post them if I get time.

 

By the way, the Bakerloo '38 stock never ran on the North London Line itself. That ran from Broad Street to Richmond via Hampstead and Willesden Junction. At Willesden there was a connection to the Watford Junction to Euston line DC lines and at that point it crossed above the Bakerloo, in addition to a flat junction southbound from the station so that trains could also run to Watford Junction from Broad Street via via Hampstead. There was also a link from Camden Road to Primrose Hill where there was a burrowing junction with the Euston Watford Juction line. Most of the Broad Street to Watford Junction trains used the Primrose Hill route, I think there was only one train in each direction between Broad Street and Watford Junction via Hampstead.

 

If you want to mix LT and BR stock then unless you model Willesden Junction, which is interesting in itself, you really looking at somewhere on the route between Queens Park and Watford Junction. Of course you could do a "what if" and assume that the North London line had stayed on DC and kept it's 4th rail on the route into Broad Street.

 

Xerces Fobe has a layout based on the old depot at Cardiff Road, Watford.

[hollywoodfoundry]

My I offer some thoughts on this. If you use a Black Beetle you can have it supplied with the correct size wheels, and will save you having to swap the wheels. Also, the Beetle is easier than the Tenshodo to convert to DCC operation.

 

And a Beetle will far outperform and outlast a Tenshodo. It has a more powerful and smoother running motor, all metal gears (the plastic gears on SPUDS wear out quite quickly) and the Beetle has better low speed performance.

 

The drawback is that it is slightly higher than the SPUD and requires a bit more work to fit it into the EFE floor. Branchlines can offer advice on the fitting and supply the Beetle.

[hollywoodfoundry]

Yes, unfortunately the maker is limited by the length of the shortest motor, being the Mashima 1220, to a minimum wheelbase of 25.5mm, whereas the SPUD can be obtained in 24.5mm wheelbase.

[Jak K-S]

Thanks a lot guys!

You given me some great advice on this subject matter and some real food for thought on both motor fitting and layout concepts/tips. In terms of powering it looks like the Tenshodo motor bogies are the way to go, the least modification the better really. Those scratchbuilt bogies look incredible! Interesting points about the 3rd and 4th rail heights too, I probably would have plonked them down with Peco chairs at normal height and ended up having to replace them too- what a nightmare that must have been! I'd love to see some more pictures of your stock and layouts shared up on the galleries section, internal lighting sounds like a treat.

In terms of layout design have quite a clear vision of what I'd like to model, something similar to late 1980's Kilburn High Road style with elements of North London Line/Underground and even West Coast mainline! Space is currently a big issue though so was considering making a boxfile type layout to begin with before I tackle something larger.

In all honesty I am beginning to consider saving for longer and getting the metromodels chaps to fit a SPUD and ballast to one Driving car and then getting a second driving car from eBay perhaps then replacing the wheels for Romford ones. I just don't think I can afford to wreck a chassis or botch a motor you see and I'm unlikely to go down the lighting or even DCC route. I suppose that I could always attempt fitting a second mechanism to a Non Driving Motor car when I extend the train/layout in the future.

Thank you again for the tips, I'll be sure to let you know what route I choose.

Regards,

Jak

 

P.S. Xerces Fobe, I tried the link to your website but It was just a blank page, not sure if it is my computer at fault but thought I'd let you know, cheers!

[noiseboy72]

I would second most of the comments. I have a 3 car 59 TS fitted with 1 SPUD in the centre car, with all the bogies replaced with Metro Models bogies and running on DCC with directional and interior lights. Have a peek at my website or gallery for a few pictures. It will happily get around the extreme curves and S bends of my layout without problems.

 

I would say a Dremmel is an absolute must for fitting the SPUD. The amount of metal and plastic to remove is substantial. I have disguised the motor installation with a few figures, mostly with their legs removed and glued to the remaining seats.

 

I found the SPUD will clear peco code 60 on standard chairs if you carefully remove the plastic under the gear on the axle. That being said, I have now removed all the chairs as I felt they looked too prominent. I am now using small round beads and a dash of grey paint and to my eyes it looks a lot better.

 

Good luck and do post some pics of the end results !

[Jak K-S]

Cheers Matt, I will definitely consider investing in a dremmel for future project use too.

Your layout Hopwood Parkway looks superb by the way- I really like the trackwork/ballasting and choice of layout design, was it tricky to wire up? The overgrown area behind the top platform is very authentic too:)

Can't wait to get started on something myself, warming towards a cheap as chips (relatively) boxfile or short removable shelf type layout to make all the school-boy errors with.

I'll keep you guys up to date (maybe as a blog once I have some basic materials in?) and no doubt will have plenty more Q's for you, especially for things like original track plans and wiring etc.

Regards,

Jak