Industrial locomotives

[Guest Austerity94]

Hi folks,

 

While still scratching my head over the matter of lack of width for my layout, I am reading and collecting information around some of the locos I watched in my 'teens. As you'll see from another thread some of this revolves round Austerity 0-6-0STs, however I am also trying to find scale drawings of a couple of other types. These are:

 

1. Hudswell Clarke inside cylinder 0-6-0Ts (a couple ran in Scotland, latterly one was at NCB Bedlay until the end of steam there). All I know is that the wheels were 4'2" and they had 17.5" internal cylinders (based on info in Brotchie, A.W., The Wemyss Private Railway). I am looking at trying to scratch build a body to fit a RTR chassis.

 

2. Andrew Barclay 0404STs - especially the post-war ones as per the DJH kit (of which I have one on order from them); and finally

 

3. ex-GNR J15 (LNER J54) - especially as rebuilt with full cab and domed boiler (the WPR had one that passed to the NCB). I am looking to get the Hornby DCC fitted one when it appears but would like to compare it to the drawings and to then possibly do some work to it.

 

For all of the above I have the usual pics taken at various angles and at various stages in life. Although I have yet to work out whether I would ever build a layout for them to run on (I remember a few pits from childhood and teenage years and they were big - also the sheer number of BR 16-tonners that would be needed too) I do want to slowly build up a few models - just in case.

 

Any help in tracking down drawings would be appreciated.

 

Thanks and regards,

 

Alex.

[Mike Bellamy]

Andrew Barclay records are with Glasgow University as detailed here http://www.gla.ac.uk/media/media_60309_en.pdf

 

They also have the North British archive, Dubs locos, Neilson locos and Pickering rolling stock

 

Hope that helps - perhaps try York Museum for the J15

 

Mike

[Guest Austerity94]

Hi folks,

 

Thanks for those suggestions. Both organisations were helpful, when contacted many years ago, however what they seemed to be able to access were the full engineering drawings for locomotives; these are very large and convey vast amounts of information. Because of that I found them to not much help with model making (originals are too big to 'trace' for outline drawings and when reduced to scale the outline of the locos disappear in the detail). I have tried this already with the drawings I have of the Austerity 0-6-0STs (from the Hunslet archive).

 

In my original thread I probably should have been clearer and said that the type of drawings I am looking for are the kind that appear in the model railway press, i.e. clear outline drawings, with detail and sections where necessary. It doesn't matter particularly whether they range form the 'rougher' style of Hardin-Osbourne to the more failiar work of the late Ian Beattie.

 

Again, thanks for your suggestions, which I will act upon.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

 

PS. Wonder how my wife will react if a large engineering drawing of a Barclay 0-4-0ST appears, framed, on the wall?

[Guest stuartp]

Thanks for those suggestions. Both organisations were helpful, when contacted many years ago, however what they seemed to be able to access were the full engineering drawings for locomotives; these are very large and convey vast amounts of information.

 

Don Townsley (ex Hunslet drawing office) has commented on this in the past, I think when drawing up Easingwold No2 for MRJ. The most useful drawings for modellers are GA (general arrangement) drawings showing the external appearance of the finished locomotive. The problem, MrTownsley stated, was that Hudswell Clarke hardly ever issued GA drawings simply because they didn't need to. As far as the erecting shop foreman was concerned he took a set of frames to drawing number X, added cylinders to drawing number Y and a cab to drawing number Z. It all fitted because the drawing office had made sure it would, and the erecting shop staff knew which way up the various bits went.

 

Drawings occasionally appeared in the modelling press either as a result of someone running a tape measure over a real loco or someone like Mr Townsley re-drawing one from the original drawings. The WPR Barclays were in RM some years ago, I defaced my copy to show the alterations for Coltness No.3/West Ayr No 18 on which the design was based.

 

I can't help with drawings for the types you mentioned but it might be worth searching indexes for Railway Modeller, Model Railways/Model Railway News, Model Railway Constructor and similar magazines for drawings, rather than the usual archive sources.

 

[Edited as per Adam's comment]

[Wizard of the Moor]

Isinglass Models include two J15 drawings in their range - 441-B and 442-B. You may already have it, but Model Railway Journal No. 7 has an article about building the Alan Gibson J15 kit and this has a nice photo of the cab details.

 

The only Andrew Barclay drawings that I am aware of are:

 

Barclay 1867 0-4-0ST 12" Railway Modeller December 1974

 

Barclay 1930 0-6-0T Nos 16-9, Wemyss Rlwy Railway Modeller July 1985

 

Barclay 0-4-0ST Model Railway Constructor September 1948

 

 

Hope this helps you out.

[Adam]

A couple of minor points: Don Townsley worked for Hunslet rather than Hudswell (as far as I know), but what he doesn't know about any of the Leeds locomotive builders (who, from memory, seem to have been mostly on the same street), probably isn't worth knowing.

 

Second, the J15 the OP is referring to is a GNR classification (not a GER Y14) for what the LNER called a J54 which looks more or less like the more familiar J52 as modelled by Hornby. Probably your best bet for a drawing of one of these (rather than the J52) would be to try the GNR Society: http://www.gnrs.150m.com/

 

A Hornby body and a Mainly Trains chassis would, perhaps be a good start for a scale model.

 

I can't help with the Hudswell, Clarke (but Agenoria do a kit in brass), but there's a drawing here of what I think is a WPR Barclay 0-6-0 tank.

 

Adam

[Guest stuartp]

A couple of minor points: Don Townsley worked for Hunslet rather than Hudswell (as far as I know), but what he doesn't know about any of the Leeds locomotive builders (who, from memory, seem to have been mostly on the same street), probably isn't worth knowing.

 

...but there's a drawing here of what I think is a WPR Barclay 0-6-0 tank.

 

You're right, he did. I beg his pardon. That is indeed the WPR big Barclay. If you reduce the size of the side tank cut-out and alter the steps a bit you get Coltness No3.

[Wizard of the Moor]

Second, the J15 is a GNR classification (not a GER Y14) for what the LNER called a J54 which looks more or less like the more familiar J52 as modelled by Hornby.

 

Better tell these guys that they've got it wrong then

[Adam]

Better tell these guys that they've got it wrong then

 

I should have added 'in this instance' - I've linked to the same site if you look - which is what the OP was asking about!

 

Adam

[Guest Austerity94]

Hi folks,

 

Thanks again for all the input on this. Thanks to a few folk here and a 'lucky' find in a second-hand book shop I have managed to track down where to find two of the drawings:

 

The ex-LNER J54/ GNR J13 is in the MRN April 65, while the Andrew Barclay appears to be the one in the MRC of September 48 (the RM one form December 74 may be too small and example - 12" cylinders?). I have pictures of both types, with the ex-J13 in original and rebuilt state in Wemyss Coal Company colours and later on in NCB green. Still no luck with drawings for an HC 0-6-0T.

 

As for the HC/AB (ex-WPR, etc) 0-6-0Ts I am not so sure that you could base one on the other as seems to be suggested. Having seen both the ex-WPR no. 9 (an HC 0-6-0T) and ex-WPR no. 20 (an AB 0-6-0T) I think the latter is significantly bigger. In fact, the Oakwood Press book on the WPR states that the big tanks were the most powerful in Fife at their time of introduction.

 

The link to the other forum was helpful, as it gave me a few hints on construction of a model, although it was interesting to observe that they published online the drawings from the above Oakwood book. I would quite like to build one of the big Barclay tanks but I have no idea as to where to begin with things such as chimneys and domes (and I don't have access to a lathe to make them). Any ideas on that would be helpful.

 

As for the MRN and MRC cited above, does anyone have a copy they would be willing to part with for a reasonable sum?

 

Again, many thanks for your helpful suggestions.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[Rail-Online]

Alex,

 

Try the vintage carriage trust who have an excellent selection of drawings on the KWVR at Ingrow web site is http://vintagecarriagestrust.org/ . Give them a call and they can usually help (and the money goes to a good cause).

 

Tony

[Guest stuartp]

I would quite like to build one of the big Barclay tanks but I have no idea as to where to begin with things such as chimneys and domes (and I don't have access to a lathe to make them). Any ideas on that would be helpful.

 

High Level Kits do another big Barclay, I've no idea whether they'd be prepared to sell small parts separately but it won't hurt to ask. The chimney currently fitted to my patly-completed scratchbuilt West Ayr No.18 (left) is turned on a mini-drill from brass tube and washers all soldered together and is looking a bit rough compared to High Level's affort (right). The smokebox door is a thick brass blank with the edge filed down and the dome will be another piece of tube with a blank soldered to the end and filed/turned in the minidrill again if i can work out how to mount it.