Mk1 BG 1960s Pictures Sought

[AER_2263]

Hi,

 

I'm looking for colour pictures of Mk1 BGs in the 1960s for painting and weathering purposes. I have two Comet kits to build and plan to finish one in Maroon and the other in Blood and Custard. I've tried searching the usual places, fotopic and flickr but the pictures I've found are all of preservation based stock.

 

Can anyone offer any assistance?

 

Cheers

[Il Grifone]

IIRC Russells GW coaches appendix has a photo of a BG as built. I'll check. It wouldn't be in colour, but the paintwork was standard BR crimson and cream.

 

Colour pictures are likely to be rare. At the time colour film was very expensive and tended to be reserved for locomotives.

 

Preserved stock does seem variable as to the shade of paint!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

The generally very well produced 'Janes' series of ' Eastern/London Midland/Southern/Western, Steam in Colour' have incidental shots of these vehicles in service bearing the BR steam era liveries. For your purposes the first two titles covering regions where BR's livery wasn't mucked about with are probably the best bet. Although there is no close up, definitely of a mk1 BG, there are frames where part of a maroon or crimson and cream mk1 coach shows the characteristic weathering of the paint, and the bodyside elements that acted as dirt traps. Since the livery and exterior detail is common to all mk1 vehicles 'any stands for any'; and the pictures bear out the uniformity of appearance that was achieved on mk1 stock, especially carrying maroon.

[AER_2263]

The generally very well produced 'Janes' series of ' Eastern/London Midland/Southern/Western, Steam in Colour' have incidental shots of these vehicles in service bearing the BR steam era liveries. For your purposes the first two titles covering regions where BR's livery wasn't mucked about with are probably the best bet. Although there is no close up, definitely of a mk1 BG, there are frames where part of a maroon or crimson and cream mk1 coach shows the characteristic weathering of the paint, and the bodyside elements that acted as dirt traps. Since the livery and exterior detail is common to all mk1 vehicles 'any stands for any'; and the pictures bear out the uniformity of appearance that was achieved on mk1 stock, especially carrying maroon.

 

Yes, I suppose any Mk1 coach can be used as an example of weathering. I am also interested in small details, such as - what colour the handrails were, whether they had the slate grey panels on the luggage doors, was there a 'Guard' sign on the door - things like that really. I've found some colour photos in a couple of books on the Cambrian but they are too far away to make out details.

[Il Grifone]

Good black and white photos are in Russell's GW coach appendix Vol. II.

 

W80675 in unlined maroon and W80705 and W81015 in crimson and cream. I also found M80725 in c/c in my Ian Allan Coaches. None of these had grey patches on the doors (I believe this was a case of some had & some hadn't). Door handles in brass, guard's handrails black. 'GUARD' on relative door. One had the long handles coloured black, but this was probably 'bull' for the official photo. Numbers on extreme RH above 'LOAD 8 TONS DISTRIBUTED'.

 

The Ian Allan gives W80675 as M80675, but this could be later reallocation, possibly when repainted? The notes state classification N, rather than BG, whatever this means!

[keefer]

the code 'N rather than BG' comes from the 1951 letter codes devised for the new mk1 gangwayed stock.

letters A - N were used, each being a different coach type, 'A' being corridor first and 'N' being 'full brake'.

info from the parkin mk1 book, p204.

 

these were the then equivalent of FK, BG etc., although the later codes were able to be used to describe more coach types than this original list.

the book also gives a lot of info regarding the liveries themselves and how they were applied to coaches ('officially' and in real life)

[Il Grifone]

the code 'N rather than BG' comes from the 1951 letter codes devised for the new mk1 gangwayed stock.

letters A - N were used, each being a different coach type, 'A' being corridor first and 'N' being 'full brake'.

info from the parkin mk1 book, p204.

 

these were the then equivalent of FK, BG etc., although the later codes were able to be used to describe more coach types than this original list.

the book also gives a lot of info regarding the liveries themselves and how they were applied to coaches ('officially' and in real life)

 

Thanks! Mistery solved! It does however suggest the unlined maroon as an earlier livery, rather than post 1957. It is true that unlined crimson was the official livery for NPCC vehicles, but I would have thought these were considered 'coaches' rather than 'coaching stock'.

[hmrspaul]

There are a few early photographs in this collection, but not in colour.

 

 

Non passenger carrying coaching stock - on BR mixed - 75 photographs

http://gallery6801.fotopic.net/show_collection.php?id=21911

 

Paul Bartlett

[keefer]

It is true that unlined crimson was the official livery for NPCC vehicles, but I would have thought these were considered 'coaches' rather than 'coaching stock'

 

i think this also applied to the kitchen cars with no passenger seating, then type M, later RK. they were technically NPCCS numbered in the 800xx series, but were only ever going to run in mainline passenger trains. although the brakes could appear in parcels services, a number would obviously be running in passenger rakes and as you say would require the livery befitting passenger stock

[hmrspaul]

The black and white 1950s photographs in my collection suggest unlined crimson was used initially, then crimson and cream followed by lined maroon for the different batches as they were delivered. The early ones were probably repainted after about 7 years into, initially lined maroon and then later either blue or blue and white. This is the difficulty of asking a question about the "1960s" as the blue livery is introduced in 1964.

 

Paul Bartlett

[AER_2263]

The black and white 1950s photographs in my collection suggest unlined crimson was used initially, then crimson and cream followed by lined maroon for the different batches as they were delivered. The early ones were probably repainted after about 7 years into, initially lined maroon and then later either blue or blue and white. This is the difficulty of asking a question about the "1960s" as the blue livery is introduced in 1964.

 

Paul Bartlett

 

Thanks to the replies above, and to you Paul for providing the link. Apologies, I understand the variation you can find in the 60s - the stock I am building is for a layout pre blue livery.