3D Printing 7mm TRAXX / EF 64 cabs

[m davies]

Ok, well I've been sat on the side lines for a long time watching these 3D printing threads so thought I'd give it a go.

 

Having moved up to the senior scale and wanting something Euro I looked around for kits or models, a complete blank as far as I can tell for Euro models so decided to have a go myself, the objective is photo etch and resin castings. The 3D CAD I can do, have all the tools for etch CAD but never accomplished so its a huge learning curve (and very long I expect) but enjoyable so far.

 

Attached a render from Max of the cabs before sending to Shapeways, haven't decided which to flex the plastic on yet. The idea is to get a 3D print, clean it up and then cast in resin (another new trick to learn), the TRAXX cab is quite simple but the chamfered edges caused some concern if an all brass etch is used, so, a resin plug, that will for its most part be covered in brass, probably over engineered but it will ensure accurate shaping of the cab ends. The plug is recessed to accept 15thou brass overlays for the front and sides which will have half etch detail, thats the intention anyway.

 

If the process is clean enough I might make a control desk the same way, so many options to trawl through, but first a trial 3D print to see what can and cannot be done.

 

Best

 

Michael

[m davies]

Whilst in Max I decided to make the masters for the Siemens EF 64 F class, very similar to the TRAXX with subtle differences in windows and roof profiles.

 

For those interested, Front is ES 64-F, Left ES 64-F4 the second generation variant, Right is TRAXX phase 1 and Rear is TRAXX Phase 2, the only one missing is the TRAXX base model, which is like Phase 1 but with the ES 64 F roof.

 

Pity the final product isn't as easy to produce as renders or the CAD work.

 

All will probably need resizing or tweaking once when I know the shrinkage of resin and how much undercut I can get away with.

 

Best

 

Michael

[Pugsley]

Fascinating stuff! Could you tell me which program you've used to create these please? I am planning to draw up some parts for 3D printing some point soon, but nothing quite this large! I'm hoping it's either freeware or cheap

[craigwelsh]

Fascinating stuff! Could you tell me which program you've used to create these please? I am planning to draw up some parts for 3D printing some point soon, but nothing quite this large! I'm hoping it's either freeware or cheap

The reference to Max makes me think its 3D Studio Max which is now owned by Autodesk and not the cheapest product.

 

Which company are you thinking of sending this to? I was impressed by the results of the company Hollywood Foundry sent a part to in the class 25 cabs thread previously but the cost was still prohibitive for me to try yet unless I know I could sell quite a few copies.

[m davies]

Fascinating stuff! Could you tell me which program you've used to create these please? I am planning to draw up some parts for 3D printing some point soon, but nothing quite this large! I'm hoping it's either freeware or cheap

 

Martin,

 

I use 3D Studio Max, its neither cheap nor free I'm afraid, last time I looked it was £2K +, I've been using it for years now for 3D sim models, specifically plane and train sims on a commercial level, its a steep learning curve but I have to say the investment has been paid back and more over the years. The above bit of the process, as you might guess, I'm ok with , its the rest from here on in thats all new and where I'll fall over.

 

However, you do not need to have an expensive software package like 3DSM, Discreet do a freeware version called Gmax, its almost the same but with out all the expensive fancy tools, which to be blunt for this kind of work you will never need, the biggest thing I would miss is the render tool, you cannot render (i.e. take pictures with fancy lights and shadows) in Gmax so images like the above are not possible....easily. Gmax is free and will produce shapes like the above as easily as 3DSM, same tools, same roll outs and same interfaces, it may even export in some of the required formats that 3D printers need, formats that are native to 3DSM, however you can add export types from many other game packs out there, there is a lot of support for Gmax so there will be an export module some where that will suffice I'm sure, and don't be surprised where they appear from, in the early days flight sim actually used an exporter from Quake or Doom I think ?.

 

Size isn't an issue in the CAD package, well actually it is but in the reverse sense, making to 7mm and 0.2mm tolerances is quite hard and the zoom level will often not go close enough to allow real fine work, I tend to enlarge the whole mesh (model) 1000x do the fine detail work and then rescale back to 1:1, or in this case 1/43rd scale. At the moment its all trial and error, not sure if the material from shapeways will suffice for a master or whether I'll need a more detailed material or supplier, but its the cheapest I can find, also working in 7mm allows better detail to be accomplished with shapeways 0.2mm tolerance. Only the window surrounds are actually that detailed, the rest will either be sanded smooth, large areas with no detail, or covered with etch which holds the detail.

 

Ironically the biggest issue is going to be Hv insulators, still haven't got my head around those yet, depending on prototype it could be as low as six or as high as twenty or even more and I think the fine detailed parts like Axel boxes, sand boxes and other sundries will have to be made from finer grain material.

 

So go and grab Gmax, read all the tutorials you can find and above all have fun, remember, smoothness is everything but keep an eye on your poly count, thats the triangles used to make each part, I've attached an image that shows all the little polygons or quads, each quad is two triangles, thus the triangle is the base unit. Unlike sim modeling where this amount of polygons would drag the game to a standstill, they will make the final product much smoother, in fact this may not even be smooth enough, but at 10K polys theres plenty of head room left for making it smoother.

 

Also attached a complete cab plug for a 110/139/140 cab and with a little tweaking a 150 cab, unlike the previous ones these will have no overlay, other than windscreen frames and door areas with half etch details, I may even take off the light housings so that it can be sanded ultra smooth for mold making, adding them later down the road. Note the instep at the rear of the cab where it will sit back inside the etched body and roof form. Some experimenting with resin to etch adhesives will be required but I'm trying to make the resin parts snap into the etch work with lugs here and there so that they are already pretty secure before bonding to the etch brass, sort of stickle brick style.

 

Hope that helps

 

Best

 

Michael

[m davies]

The reference to Max makes me think its 3D Studio Max which is now owned by Autodesk and not the cheapest product.

 

Which company are you thinking of sending this to? I was impressed by the results of the company Hollywood Foundry sent a part to in the class 25 cabs thread previously but the cost was still prohibitive for me to try yet unless I know I could sell quite a few copies.

 

Craig, initially it'll be sent to shapeways and yes I did follow the class 25 cab thread with great interest, the current cabs in 7mm scale cost around £25 a piece, perfectly acceptable to play around with, the finish with a little smoothing may actually be perfectly acceptable, especially the TRAXX and EF cabs where the only external part remaining will the the chamfered corner piece that runs from roof to buffer beam. On the 140 cab theres no detail at all so it should be quite easy to smooth that all over and make it acceptable for resin molding. Its the interior surfaces that might be a problem but the Shapeways fidelity may well be perfectly acceptable ?, hence the trial pieces.

 

Hollywood Foundry did show some excellent pieces from Fineline but the cost for a 7mm cab would be, I estimate, near £500!, I will probably use them for the detailed running gear parts I need to cast, but I'm hoping that with a clever mix of materials it should be possible to use Shapeways for most of the very large molded parts, like cab plugs, large roof lumps etc, basically anything that has smooth corners, thats the theory anyway, and yes. I'm sure I'll fall flat on my face now and then.

 

The etching I'm most interested in, I'm utterly useless at cutting brass in any resemblance of a straight line , and the basic box like body's of the TRAXX and EF series are almost perfect learning prototypes to play around with.

 

Best

 

Michael

[hollywoodfoundry]

Hollywood Foundry did show some excellent pieces from Fineline but the cost for a 7mm cab would be, I estimate, near £500!,

Best

 

Michael

 

Michael,

 

I don't think it would cost that much, the price is according to the time taken to build the part and a 7mm cab is still within the maximum size Fineline quote for the high definition process. But, in any event, go to their site and do an automatic quote, it costs you nothing: http://www.finelineprototyping.com/

 

And if you want to get into metal etching, may I recommend you look at the series of articles I have on my web site that deal with the subject: http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/HowToPapers.shtm

 

Geoff

[m davies]

Michael,

 

I don't think it would cost that much, the price is according to the time taken to build the part and a 7mm cab is still within the maximum size Fineline quote for the high definition process. But, in any event, go to their site and do an automatic quote, it costs you nothing: http://www.finelineprototyping.com/

 

And if you want to get into metal etching, may I recommend you look at the series of articles I have on my web site that deal with the subject: http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/HowToPapers.shtm

 

Geoff

 

Geoff,

 

Thank you for those excellent links, I didn't think Finelines did an automated pricing like Shapeways, will give that a go, if its time related then I suspect the simplicity of the masters will be a large bonus.

 

The photo etch articles will be most helpful, I understand the process, have the tools even just never got around to it, I spoke to several vendors at Warley last year and its near that time again this year....to ask the same questions again LOL. We use Autocad at work for electrical drawings, shamefully i usually get the student to do it as I find Autocad cumbersome, I suppose its just a case of learning the tools and playing around with it all.

 

I know you can import from Max to Autocad so the idea is to make the part in Max then get Max to auto flatten and then import that flat piece into Autocad and then add the etch detail, tabs and other such requirements, perfect theory, but practice ?, well we will see .

 

Kindest

 

Michael

[Pugsley]

Thanks for the info, Michael, I'll have a look at Gmax. I've found another program, Blender, that looks like it might be suitable - do you know anything about this, please?

 

The Hollywood Foundry etching papers are very useful - I found them a great help when I was learning how to do it (although I am still very much learning about the process!)

[m davies]

Martin,

 

Sorry for the delayed reply, real life and all that bunkum! .

 

I've heard of Blender, never used it myself but have heard its quite an adept piece of software, how easy it is to use i wouldn't know, or if it even exports in a format the 3D printers can use.

 

Best

 

Michael

 

 

Thanks for the info, Michael, I'll have a look at Gmax. I've found another program, Blender, that looks like it might be suitable - do you know anything about this, please?

 

The Hollywood Foundry etching papers are very useful - I found them a great help when I was learning how to do it (although I am still very much learning about the process!)

[m davies]

Geoff,

 

Finally got around to trying finelines quoting, sadly it looks like they do not do this service to non registered users, more importantly they appear to not be accepting new users so that you can register and then use the quoting system, I'll try miling and see what happens.

 

The etching documents are very good, printed read and re-read, a lot of detailed information in there!.

 

Best

 

Michael

 

Michael,

 

I don't think it would cost that much, the price is according to the time taken to build the part and a 7mm cab is still within the maximum size Fineline quote for the high definition process. But, in any event, go to their site and do an automatic quote, it costs you nothing: http://www.finelineprototyping.com/

 

And if you want to get into metal etching, may I recommend you look at the series of articles I have on my web site that deal with the subject: http://www.hollywoodfoundry.com/HowToPapers.shtm

 

Geoff

[Pugsley]

Martin,

 

Sorry for the delayed reply, real life and all that bunkum! .

 

I've heard of Blender, never used it myself but have heard its quite an adept piece of software, how easy it is to use i wouldn't know, or if it even exports in a format the 3D printers can use.

 

Best

 

Michael

Thanks for the response - real life can be a pain sometimes!

 

I've subsequently found a thread on here where someone has used Blender to create Class 25 cabs, and has managed to get the output printed, so it looks promising. I've downloaded a copy, now all I need to do is get my head around using it - I think it's going to take a while!