Plastic and metal OO cattle van

[relaxinghobby]

 

Can anyone identify this cattle van?

 

 

00 size. The body had no roof, it seems to be moulded in a transparent brittle plastic, perhaps it's perspex.

 

The chassis is metal sections and is held together and up to the palastic body with nuts and bolts.

 

The body seems to be assemble from separate sides, ends and floor and glued together, the bars across the openings are stretched elastic.

 

 

 

[roythebus]

I used to have a number of these sort of wagons back in the mid 1960's with the same underframe. I never did find out what make they were! i suppose for their time they were super detailed!

[bertiedog]

The castings look like Acro in style, based on the older Essar castings, but it depends on whether they are soft whitemetal / lead, or a harder Mazak metal. The body may be a different maker.to the underframe.

Stephen.

[Il Grifone]

It's an ERG cattle wagon. Clear plastic sides and mazak underframe. They were available with various wheels - Bakelite? hard plastic (like these) a rather nice metal tyred version with a plastic spoked centre to BRMSB and also HD standard.<br><br>There were also 3 vans (supposedly goods, meat and fish, but I have never been able to work out which is which) 5 plank open, steel mineral*, petrol tank, bolster and brake van.<br>* rivetted/pressed steel LNER type. The vans are all too tall cf Farish.<br><br>Edit:-<br>I forgot the high sided open (described as high and low wagons). I've found an advertisement in MRC 08/54, which states 3/9d each plus postage 3d* or 6d for 2 or more. The bolster wagon is not listed. IIRC correctly this appeared later, possibly replacing the cattle wagon, which does not appear in later ads. (It's the hardest to find after the bolster wagon.) The rarity of the latter is probably due to its construction. The sides are from square section wood and the bolster from thicker section with two bits of wire stuck in. Guaranteed to fall apart again, if assembled with 1950s adhesives. (Durofix or Seccotine anyone? - There were others all somewhat lacking in their ability to join things together.) They came with ERG 3 link couplings (very overscale!). I remember the buffers and couplings would not fit in the holes/slots provided in the headstocks or, at least, not with the tools I had at the time. HD wheels were supplied unless BRMSB were requested, which appears to be have been general as most survivors have scale wheels - probably when you added 2/6d for Peco couplings, it was cheaper to buy a Dublo wagon.<br><br>*About 30p in today's money - rather less than today's 'First Class' letter and considerably less than a small parcel. IIRC letters were 2½d or 1½d for postcards and unsealed envelopes - everything delivered next day or even the same day if local!  <img class="bbc_emoticon" alt="" src="http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/public/style_emoticons/default/unsure.gif"><br>

[relaxinghobby]

Thanks for the identification Grifone

 

Yes the chassis is the hard metal mazak.

 

The van is almost exactly identical with the current Bachmann cattle wagon, except on this old ERG model the roof profile seems to be far to high, this does not show in my photographs.

[Il Grifone]

The roof moulding is common to all the vans and has a pronounced arc. The height overall is reasonable in the cattle wagon but the other vans have excessive side height. They are not too bad, considering the period, but the underframe is rather poor. Enormous axleboxes, no brake gear and the solebars are too wide - this could be reduced, but 1. they're collectables and 2. mazak is tough stuff to saw through! Modern* wheels require the boss on the back of the axleguards filing down to allow them to revolve freely, I find. (The spoked wheels are quite nice, especially for vehicles needing a thick tyre (NER for example).

 

*Those rubbish plastic wheels from kits etc., that never get used otherwise, are ideal for things like these that live on display shelves.

 

IIRC the plastic is immune to Mekpak, but Humbrol Liquid Poly will work.

[D51]

As David has said, this is an ERG Cattle Wagon.

 

Originally released as "Masterpiece " parts about 1946 or 47, they were manufactured by the McMurdo Instrument Company, a radio component manufacturer. About 20 years ago, McMurdo made audio DIN plugs using mazak castings. In 1948 ERG took over the distribution of the parts and also sold them as kits. At that time there were the following types available: flush-door van, hinged-door van, sliding-door van, high-sided open, low-sided open, steel mineral with or without end door, and petrol tank wagon. By 1949 two more types were added, brake van and cattle wagon.

 

In 1949 the cattle van sides were 8d. each, the ends 6d. each and the roof 5¹/₂d. Adhesive (perspex cement) was 3d.

The underframe parts were: floor with nuts and bolts 11d. each, solebar 5d. each, buffer beam and buffers 11d. each, 8-spoke wheels 1/1¹/₂d. per axle, and couplings 7¹/₂d. per pair.

By my reckoning the cost of the wagon was 9/6d. But when ERG sold them as kits the price was 8/2d. plus couplings and adhesive, so the total was then 9/0¹/₂d., a saving of 5¹/₂d.!

 

The wheels were really excellent for the time with steel axle, perspex spokes and plated brass tyres. However after a few years these became unavailable. ERG then brought out "Rex" wheels which were made of a hard plastic with steel half-axle moulded with the wheel. The two half-axles were joined by a piece of black celastoid tubing which held them in gauge.

 

The "Masterpiece" kits were renamed "Rex" kits when supplied with the Rex wheels and sold at a much reduced price, initially 3/9d., eventually reducing to only 2/6d.

 

The tool for the cattle van became damaged in the early 50s and it was no longer listed. However some stock must have been found as it re-appeared in the late 50s for a short time as a Rex kit. This is the wagon as illustrated here.

 

To make up the types available, a Rex bolster wagon was introduced, but this did not have plastic body parts. It was just the underframe with stripwood for the sides and bolster and a piece of brass wire and length of chain for the stanchions.

 

The quality of these wagons was quite remarkable for the time although the height of all the vans except the cattle van was excessive.

The buffers were brass turnings and were a force fit in the holes. You tapped them in with a light hammer. The coupling slot was always too short and had to be enlarged with a fretsaw blade. Quite a difficult job for a young boy!

 

I have a lot of these wagons and unfortunately the mazak used in the solebars is now deteriorating where they have been subject to damp.

 

Frank

[bertiedog]

I think the perspex wheels ERG supplied ended at the same time as Sayer Chaplin, another electrical engineering firm in to models, closed after the death of the founder, and they may have been the makers. They made things for Hamblings, who stored away lots of Sayer stuff after the closure and sale of Sayers stock. Most of ERG production came from outside specialist suppliers.

Stephen.

[hmrspaul]

Funny co-incidence. The subject 0f ERG kits has come up on 7mm Yahoo Group today.

 

Collectables........ Do me a favour. They are deplorable. I was well ripped off in the the 1960s when I bought a whole lot of them. The vans don't even have anything that resembles a door. I doubt they were ever really acceptable and by the 1960s we had Airfix kits at 2 shillings (and the Lowmac with that lovely load and Interfrigo van at 3 shillings). Yes, their wheels and couplings were rubbish - but many of you still buy the same kits but now an inferior product from Dapol (because the moulds are passed their use by dates).

 

The bits of these ERG kits still clutters up my railway room. Are they really of any value?

 

Paul Bartlett.

[Il Grifone]

Their value lies in being part of our heritage. In terms of hard cash, they are almost worthless and can usually be found at swapmeets for a couple of pounds.

 

I have four of them sitting in front of me as I type and others stored away. Mazak corrosion must be due to damp, I think, as none of mine suffer from it. (Unlike Trix hoppers, Weltrols and lighted brake vans which all seem to suffer.)

[bertiedog]

By the 1960's the design was dated, but they started from the 1947 era, and were considured good enough to remain in production, but the later REX versions were reduced in price and value at the end as they had been overtaken by other makers, still collectable, however bad they appear today.

 

Many items made in that period had material restrictions imposed on them, you could not use any wasteful resources to make toys, or models, without Board of Trade permission, signed by Harold Wilson!! long before he became PM. It was the 1950's before the restrictions were removed, and spelt the end for some makes, as the restrictions had protected some makers, by giving them a restricted market..

 

Electronics Companies, (radio parts makers), were experienced with plastics like Bakelite and Perspex, and that was why so many got involved, Farish, Preens, Formo, Mc Murdo, Kirdon,and Sayer Chaplin, all did model production, along with EKCO who made controllers at one point. Wrenn also had an electrical background, as did Peco, (Mr Pritchard), to some extent with his early patented products.

Stephen.

[Claire RJ]

I do not recall how I came to have these McMurdo kits but I have 3 Mcmurdo vans which I must have made up when I was a teenager. It was only as a result of going through and re-cataloguing all the stock that I seem to have somehow amassed that I came upon them. With a dad who was an electronic engineer, the name McMurdo rang  a bell,  and it is good to know that the firm is basically still in existence or was as far as I am aware. I do not think they make 00 vans any more!

[Il Grifone]

These wagons haven't been on sale since the fifties. I believe ERG bought up the stocks of parts from McMurdo and, once sold, that was it. They were not a great loss, as better things were available. They do still turn up on the second hand market, usually at a couple of quid or so.

[locomad2]

Very interesting thread any idea whose this casting is? As similar construction ie chassis held together by 4 screws but better casting.

 

 

And underneath 

 

[Barclay]

I have some of these too. I have always considered that the tabs where they bolt together have a certain similarity to the old S & B sprung axleguards, but perhaps someone will know more..

[Il Grifone]

That's something new! (to me at least). it's obviously supposed to be something GWR, judging by the axleboxes.

 

The wheels are Nucro/Jackson/Romford, of course, which were about all you could get in the fifties, if you needed BRMSB 'scale' wheels. (1/4d for 2 wheelsets IIRC.) The 3-hole and disc versions are OK, but the spoked type leave something to be desired. (Appearance-wise - they run well especially if pinpointed.) Early ones have axles ⌀1.9mm, later ones 2mm.

[GoingUnderground]

On 16/02/2011 at 18:11, Il Grifone said:

Their value lies in being part of our heritage. In terms of hard cash, they are almost worthless and can usually be found at swapmeets for a couple of pounds.

 

I have four of them sitting in front of me as I type and others stored away. Mazak corrosion must be due to damp, I think, as none of mine suffer from it. (Unlike Trix hoppers, Weltrols and lighted brake vans which all seem to suffer.)

Corrosion-induced cracking of model train zinc-aluminium die castings is caused by small amounts of impurities in the metal, notably lead, cadmium and tin. The corrosion requires moisture to initiate and progress, and is accelerated by higher temperatures. A possible countermeasure is to apply parylene coatings to suspect or slightly damaged items. This would have to be done by specialist firms. Source: R.J.H. Wanhill and T. Hattenberg NLR-TP-2005-205 Corrosion-induced cracking of model train zincaluminium die castings Nationaal Lucht- en Ruimtevaartlaboratorium National Aerospace Laboratory NLR. https://web.archive.org/web/20110716065232/http://www.nlr.nl/id~4210/lang~en.pdf