Comet/Hornby Stanier D2123 BSK(BTK) Conversion

[talyllyn1]

Some time ago, in Coachmanns' 4m/m Coaches thread, there was a discussion about LMS "Porthole" BTKs, and I posted a couple of photos of a model I'd built. I said I was going to attempt a similar post-war D2123 BTK(or in my case BSK as it's BR 1960's).

Inspiration came from Robert Carrolls' Flickr site:-

A vehicle re-allocated to the Western Region was ideal for my BR Cambrian lines theme - so here goes..

 

These coaches (and the porthole equivalents) featured deeper sides overhanging the solebars and deeper eaves panels above the windows. As a result the windows, door handles etc. were lower down than on other Stanier coaches.

Comets's sides lack the extra depth, and on my sides the tumblehome wasn't quite right, having too tight a radius, starting too far down. I don't have any bending bars, so I flattened the sides slightly using even thumb pressure along the bottom on a piece of plywood. I then "hung" the bottom edge over the side of the plywood (from just below door handle level) and reformed the radius, again with even thumb pressure

[talyllyn1]

Oops!

Pushed the "send" button before I'd finished!

Anyway, the "before" side is on the left. In fairness to Comet, I've bought some more Stanier sides since and the tumblehome is much better.

I sorted the extra depth by soldering a strip of 1m/m x 0.12m/m brass strip (from Eileens Emporium) along the top edge.

 

The sides and the strip need to be anchored flat by drawing pins on plywood, and the soldering done sparingly from the back.

 

I decided to use a new-standard Hornby BTK for this, as the underframe won't need too much doing to it, and I want to take advantage of the close coupling mechanisms.

After dismantling I tackled the roof first as the body becomes less rigid when the sides are removed. Using the Comet drawing as a guide,the roof tank filler needs carefully removing and repositioning, and the rails shortened to suit. The roof "ribs" need to be altered, and I compromised slightly by just removing one rib (with the paint partly removed in the photo) and adding another (indicated by the tape).

Although D2123 coaches had roof ribs, they were much flatter than pre-war vehicles and with a good coating of soot are barely visible. I've used 10x20 thou. microstrip for the extra rib as I'll be rubbing all the ribs down a bit.

Some of the roof vents need removing and more adding in different places. I'm not keen on Hornbys shell vents as they look a bit wide to me, so I'll be replacing them with MJT short shell vents. W26585M has at least one replacement torpedo vent visible in the photo, so I'll be adding a couple in among the shells. Replacement vents seem to have been used at random, at least in BR days. I've seen a photo of shell, torpedo and ridge-dome vents - all on one coach!

Next up I'll post some pictures of modifying the body to take the brass sides.

[talyllyn1]

There isn't sufficient overhang under the gutters to use the time-honoured method of filing off the detail and sticking the sides on as overlays, so the plastic sides need to come off. I wanted to keep the retaining lugs for the underframe, and as these are part of the glazing it's best to make sure they are well attached with solvent before cutting.

The plastic sides need to be removed as in the photo:-

Next I filed the remaining parts of the sides (the bits of maroon paint) down by about the thickness of the brass sides - enough to provide some overhang of the gutters. The cut edge under the gutter needs to be as smooth and straight as possible.

After soldering the door handles, hinges, destination board brackets etc., and cleaning up the backs I attached a strip of 40thou. microstrip to the rear top edges to form a surface for the sides to be glued under the gutters. I've found that Evostick "Timebond" allows a small amount of repositioning before "grabbing".

 

The brass sides are now attached - again Timebond gave a useful amount of adjustment.

Note how, with the extra strip soldered to the top, the sides now come down lower than the ends.

 

In order to prevent the underframe bowing up into the body, more 40thou. strips are glued onto the inside, at the same point as the old sides would have been. Lining up with the plastic remains achieves this - as in the photo:-

 

Next I'll be doing to some detail alterations to the "van" end and tackling the interior and underframe.

[talyllyn1]

The interior needs to be modified to conform to the Comet drawing. This is basically a "cut and shut" job, moving the toilet from next to the van to the vestibule end. I drew around the base of the unit first onto a piece of card to retain the "footprint" dimensions. Cutting is as in the photo-

 

 

The two large portions are then glued together and the toilet and vestibule end made up from 30 thou. plasticard. The corridor needs to be extended into the van and the guards communicating door repositioned:-

 

 

A consequence of fitting thinner brass sides is that there is a rather obvious gap between the sides and the interior unit when viewed through the compartment windows. This can be disguised to some extent by filing off the outer armrests and continuing the upholstery colour down over the end of the seats.

 

 

These coaches had all-welded underframes and bogies, so all the rivet detail on the Hornby underframe and bogies needs removing with a knife blade and fibreglass brush. I also added strips of 10 x 20 thou. microstrip above the bolsters on the bogie sideframes to represent the welded gussets. The van end stepboards need to be modified, and the stepboard added below the extra corridor door - all as per the Comet drawing.

 

The ends needed a few modifications. The end steps (except the bottom one) were removed during BR days, along with the roof handrails, and the left hand van end handrail shortened to match the right hand one:-

 

 

The distinctive beading each side of the windows was added using 10 x 20 thou. microstrip. Unfortunately, when I was removing the sides I managed to damage the bottom step and the lamp irons . These were reinstated with bits of brass fret-waste (except the LH lamp iron, where a lamp will be permanently attached).

These coaches had different gangway suspension brackets - which seem to be a feature of all the BTK's built with welded underframes and extended sides. I'll be making these up from brass wire and fret-waste. Pilot holes have been drilled for them, and the old holes filled in.

 

A bit of tidying up, and it's ready for the paintshop.

[Guest stuartp]

Nice to see someone else tackling one of these, and you've soldered the extra bit to the right edge - unlike me !

[coachmann]

Bravo, a correct welded floor LMS brake third. It does make all the diference. I didn't ask the CAD operator to add quite enough 'meat' above the windows when etching my sides. 1mm or 3 inches looks about right on your coach. I note it is one of the elusive postwar variety before porthole windows arrived on the scene.

[talyllyn1]

I'm laying the blame for my current coach "fettish" with you Larry!

It started with me doing the four Mainline/Comet WR Collett "Sunshine" conversions that I needed for a forthcoming BR(W) Cambrian layout.

Then I latched onto your 4m/m coaches thread and got hooked by your seemingly endless variety of models. About this time I noticed in photos that trains on the Cambrian in the 60's often had an ex-LMS Stanier BSK in them, so inspired by your efforts I made a "Porthole" variant. I'd got a couple of Airfix CK's in store and before I knew it I was bashing these into D2117 and D1975 versions.

I then couldn't resist buying some new-standard Hornby Staniers at a good price, but wasn't satisfied with the lozenge-effect "flush-glazing", or the drab rendering of BR Maroon. One of these has been converted into a D2119 post-war SK, and a pre-war D1899 is in the queue.

I had an old PC Models kit lying around - shame not to use it, so it's ended up with Comet sides and Bachmann bogies as a D1999 SO(TO). I'm particularly pleased with how this one turned out:-

 

 

I'm really grateful for your tip on fitting roof tank filler pipes in one piece with a BA screw and nut.

 

 

There's something about Stanier coaches that I can't seem to resist.

Next up will be a BG, followed by a D1968 BSK. I've got an old Dapol period-2 12-wheel diner in the loft and I'm itching to do something with it. I'm planning to turn it into a Stanier D1938 RC diner using Comet sides, and sort out the ride height while still allowing a reasonable amount of bogie swing (watch this space!).

Quite what all these have to do with a Cambrian layout is another matter, and I'm pretty sure a D1938 diner never made it to the "coast" line, so I feel a change of plan coming on.

Then there's the small matter of the 2 Hornby Hawksworths I've now got - the windows just don't look right with brass-sided coaches. I really must do something with that boxful of Bachmann MK 1s I've got stored away (hmm, a BSO would be nice...)

So many coaches - so little time. Larry, you really do have a lot to answer for!

Back on topic, painting the D2123 BSK is coming along nicely, I'll post some pics when it's done.

[talyllyn1]

Right, it's about finished -

 

 

The later (higher) position that BR adopted for the upper lining is in just the right place to disguise the brass strip soldered to the top of the sides.

 

Taking a close look at the prototype photo, it looks as though the "W" prefix isn't quite in line with the rest of the number. This suggests that W26585M wasn't repainted before transfer to the Western Region. I remember seeing a re-allocated BR maroon Mk1 at Birmingham Snow Hill in the mid-60's. The old prefix letter had been patch-painted over and the new one was a distinctly different shade. This model therefore gets a cream "W", whereas the rest of the number is yellow.

 

 

The different style of gangway suspension brackets is clearer in the photo above.

 

 

I use Keen Systems sprung "floating" gangway endplates in conjunction with either Roco close-couplers or the longer Hornby "Roco clone". In this case the gangway unit is made up from the optional longer bellows supplied by Hornby with 2 "convolutions" cut off, and a Keen BR Mk1 gangway endplate, reshaped to suit.

 

 

The pic. above shows the differences when compared to a standard (but weathered) Hornby TK. Although the solebars, stepboards and roof are about the same height, the sides extend lower over the solebars and the windows, door handles etc. are lower. The eaves panel above the windows is deeper.

The rivets have been removed from the underframe and bogies, and the bogies have 2 pieces of microstrip added to represent the welded gussets on the sideframes.

One of the "odd" torpedo vents is visible.