Losing it.

[The Stationmaster]

I don't think that any of us are fault-free drivers (or pedestrians/cyclists either), and that it beholves us all to allow for other people's mistakes-hence the excellent hazard perception part of the driving test. I would suggest that nearly all collisions are the result of either more than one person's mistake or someone not allowing for someone else's mistake. My father used to talk about removing the mote (whatever that is) in your own eye first.

 

Ed

 

Interestingly the hazard perception test has been taken out of the Speed Awareness Course (or certainly the version the AA are running) although I'm not entirely sure why except that there was apparently some feeling that the course wasn't as good as it could be (which might explain why I've been on two?).

[The Stationmaster]

Mike, I'll give you a point for that part as I agree strongly from what I witness with my own eyes.

 

However, I will stick to the lack of decent men to look up to for so many of our young lads.

I frequently see men in their 20s these days walking down the street with one hand down the front of their trousers (looking for inspiration?), talking at shouting volume in what passes for normal conversation and generally carrying on in ways that would have been unthinkable for a 20 year old even 30 years ago - when I was a kid, it was only the slightly backward one from down the street who had his hand down his strides and even he seemed to grow out of it before he was ten.

 

You can see it even in 'grown men' approaching their 30s these days in the utterly brain dead and immature way they drink and conduct themselves whilst doing so.

 

I'm sorry folks but after 20 years in this game I just don't like people and when I'm not there, I like to go where there are as few as possible.

 

I'm going to retire to an isolated corner of the border country where I hope to avoid all human contact except that which is on my own terms.

 

Dave.

 

I see what you mean on that part Dave and it's possibly to some extent an overall reflection on modern society (but then it has probably, at least in part, gone that way for that very reason!). I live in a supposedly affluent part of the country although it seems we are as blessed with as much human effluent as elsewhere - it's just that they wear more expensive clothes and spend more - and there is an atrocious lack of politeness among drivers (many of whom don't consider that the law applies to them) and it extends to pedestrians and people in shops, occasionally including the staff in the latter. So it is in some respects a problem across society but that is, as you say, often down to lack of role models and discipline among adults.

[Guest dilbert]

Looks like some people "lost it " in Tottenham yesterday - any good old excuse for some looting and arson about... dilbert

[Guest Max Stafford]

I think of it as a form of rhetorical question; 'Who rules Tottenham? - The Civic Authorities or the Crime Lords'. I suspect you'll find that the unrest was orchestrated by the dead man's 'firm' after they got sympathetic residents 'fired' up with the inevitable propaganda exercise and demands for 'justice'.

 

However bearing in mind that there are a number of contentious subjects contained within this particular episode we're probably best keeping away from it and letting those tasked with sorting this matter out get on with what will be a difficult job.

 

That said, a great deal of what we've already discussed at length was clearly on display there last night.

 

Dave.

[Baby Deltic]

Interestingly the hazard perception test has been taken out of the Speed Awareness Course (or certainly the version the AA are running) although I'm not entirely sure why except that there was apparently some feeling that the course wasn't as good as it could be (which might explain why I've been on two?).

 

I'm not surprised at all. Having the hazard perception part in the speed awareness course might have been debunking the money making myth that is spun (as justification for the deployment of speed cameras even where there have been no fatalities or serious accidents) about speeding being the cause of every accident.

[The Stationmaster]

I'm not surprised at all. Having the hazard perception part in the speed awareness course might have been debunking the money making myth that is spun (as justification for the deployment of speed cameras even where there have been no fatalities or serious accidents) about speeding being the cause of every accident.

 

I think the 'speed being the cause of every accident' thing really needs to be thoroughly debunked. There is little doubt that speed plays an important part in some accidents possibly even being the major contributory cause but what it really does (and this is why it gets so much notice I think) is that it increase the chances and severity of injuries and the likelihood of fatalities and that is why it gets so much attention. In pure statistical terms (unadjusted for vehicle miles etc) Britain's 'safest' roads are our fastest roads, i.e. motorways, but then they also have all sorts of other mitigations not the least of which is that traffic in either direction is fully segregated from that in the opposite direction which in fact means that in many incidents relative contact speeds are quite low.

 

But overall it all comes back to the way road accidents are classified in the first place and that - I think - is where greater clarity is needed between initial cause (mostly poor driving I suspect) and the effect of various factors on the consequences of any sort or category of incident.

As far as speed cameras are concerned I still hear reasons given for the presence of fixed cameras which are grossly erroneous - again this week the course was told that fixed cameras are only provided where there has been a fatality or where speeding at the camera site would have been a strong contributory factor in such a fatality. And again I pointed out that that statement is total nonsense - a point which could not be answered.

[Mod5]

I think it about time for an OT warning here. Apart from the fact that hazard perception tests and the like have nothing to do with kids throwing stuff at passing cars the OP said in his original post.

 

Please don't ask to bring back National Service, hanging, corporal punishment etc as there are online petitions for such a thing.

 

So someone immediately mentions that. Then I have had to remove a post from someone suggesting taking the law into their own hands and threatening violence to these sort of people (not kids). So could we please confine ourselves to the topic and not go off on tangents? In fact this from the op is ringing bells.

 

MODS - I appreciate that this fall under the category of "the state of society etc etc" so if it is felt that it serves no purpose or can only lead to no good then please act accordingly but, as I am sure you appreciate, sometimes you just need to gauge your reaction against that of others who may have been faced with a similar circumstance. I feel like reporting my own thread just to be sure... (I wonder if I'll be the first to do so? )

 

By all means discuss but please do not advocate violent or law breaking actions and try at least to keep 'close' to the topic.

[62613]

I'm gonna tell it how I see it. Violent computer games, violent gangster ©rap giving kids the idea that violence and gang culture are acceptable, and lazy benefit seeking parents who don't care about their kids, but care about the money they get for sitting on their backsides infront of the TV blowing smoke at the ceiling.

 

Don't just think that it's the benefit-seeking parents who are the the bad ones. The area where I live is fairly respectable, as far as the town it's part of goes. Most of the houses are late 50's 60's and 70's-type semi-detached and detached. Quite a few of the adults are self-employed tradesmen, who have their company van on the drive and all is very nice inside and out. The reason the homes are nice inside is that those with kids wont't allow them to play inside, and would rather have them wandering the streets causing mayhem.

[Pennine MC]

While the stone/snowball throwers are clearly out of order, you could argue that the pedestrian in Hull had as much right to cross the road as the driver had to drive along it.

 

Sorry Edwin, the key point I should have added was that this was on a light-controlled pedestrian crossing (that was itself part of a complex junction), and the taxi had the green. Ordinarily, I'd accept that a pedestrian already in the road has the right of way, but one who's chosen to cross against a red in the face of an oncoming car is being a bit foolish to say the least.

[Pennine MC]

BTW I also tend to have more sympathy for the parents of the, for example Norway madman or the Bulger killers than for the victims. The victims have the "luxury" of having someone to blame, the criminal's parents also lose a child and will spend the rest of their lives blaming themselves.

 

Sorry Ed, I cant agree with that at all, and I dont know how you can describe having someone to blame as a 'luxury', even in inverted commas. I agree it's rough on parents who have unwittingly spawned a monster, but that parental sense of responsibility goes with (or should go with) the territory of having kids - the parents of the victims have done nothing at all to deserve the sense of loss and bewilderment of losing their child in a senseless act by a stranger

 

. Now the kids wanted to be really helpful and get mummy's items for her, the mother had not clocked on to this and then the kids were putting said items into trolley when there was that item already in the trolley, she then turns around and shouts at the children for 'being annoying and attention seeking' by trying to help!!! is it me or are some parents backwards minded. If it were my kids I would ask them to go get certain items to be helpful. instead she turned two smiling kids into shivering wrecks.

 

I must admit to something similar Sam - I'm guilty of shouting at computers when they're trying to 'help'

[Leicester Thumper]

I must admit to something similar Sam - I'm guilty of shouting at computers when they're trying to 'help'

 

names bruce...

 

my gran has an acer laptop which just randomly spurts out and talks to her about MSN and setting up emails meanwhile my poor gran is panicking shouting at the thing to stop whilst my cousin runs in to stop it!! lol

[Pennine MC]

names bruce...

 

It is now

 

Apologies, I've no idea where I got Sam from

[Raffles]

UPDATE:

 

Chatting to a neighbour this afternoon who was asking if I had seen somebody attack his van this morning (I don't live in one of those areas, honest) and I mentioned that I was expecting some retribution from these kids. Turns out a few months back, he tackled them verbally about dismantling, brick by brick, a freshly built wall. He got a similar level of abuse as me although when he headed for them, they ran.

 

It turns out they weren't very far from home at all when I tackled them. Over the road in fact.

 

I believe this boils down to a lack of respect. Respect for their property, their parents, other people and other peoples property and, ultimately, the law. I see traits of it in my nephews and other peoples kids - simple things like the disposal approach they have toward possessions. "Doesn't matter if it gets broken, I'll get another one". I think they also are generally spoiled to help them keep up with their peers. I witnessed my wife's nephew turning 13 today. He now has both an iPod Touch and a SAMSUNG Galaxy phone.

 

Thirteen. [old man] When I was thirteen, I never had anything so exotic[/old man]

 

Perhaps it's just me, although I fancy it isn't.

[Jinty3f]

"What is happening to our young people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions. Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"

 

Plato, circa 400 BC.

 

JD

[Guest Max Stafford]

Such things never change. How we deal with them has. Irrevocably.

 

Dave.

[NGT6 1315]

This may be at least loosely related to the general topic brought up in the OP, so I guess I'll just write it down in here. I myself can very much relate to at least getting close to losing it while on the road, considering the increasingly reckless behaviour displayed by too many other motorists. I admit that, in fact, I have found myself using language (strictly to myself inside my own car, I should add, but related to kamikaze drivers of all flavours) not suitable for reproduction on a public forum on too many occasions, and continue to wonder just what the H may be going on out there that apparently makes so many drivers feel both invulnerable and free from any kind of consideration for the safety of others.

 

However, during our recent stay on the North Sea coast, I was literally dumbstruck by how well behaved a definite 90-plus percent of local drivers were. Imagine a two-lane road easily wide enough for three or possibly four lanes, but within Cuxhaven's city limits and thus subject top a 50 kph limit. Down here around Frankfurt, I could promise you that 90 percent of drivers would top out at up to twice that speed. However, for some reason or other, almost all Cuxhaven locals strictly adhered to this limit, with speeders usually being tourists from other parts of the country.

 

Needless to say, I found driving up there to be extremely relaxing!

[Lady_Ava_Hay]

Although I accept that modern youth does behave in the way described, I do think that it has more to do with the stresses of modern life.

 

i could go on about this for ages but the nub of it seems to be that in the pursuit of 'efficiency' we have removed the marker posts and sign posts so effectively that neither parent or child really knows what they are supposed to do or how to behave in any given social situation.

 

We have created a truly level playing field in which everyone has equal opportunity to be themselves but signally failed to inform all these 'players' on such a beautiful playing field, exactly how to use it.

[simon hudson]

After reading this thread I agree about young people and lack of discipline(no not the cane etc etc) no respect and lack of moral understanding.My concern is if this lot are like this,what will the next lot be like.I know my parents used to say to me "Your generation!! it's getting worse",I suppose it's part of the rites of passage.I know the difference between right and wrong and I always try to respect others not that it makes much difference these day's,I like to be treated the way I treat others.

On a lighter note my Father in law 85 yrs old and a typical Durham pitman summed it up perfectly, one night we were talking over a pint down at the local and out of the blue"Well we've finally done it" my reply "Whats that Tommy" Why we've bred a generation of idiots" I don't think he was far wrong

[BoD]

Let's not forget that there are an awful lot of good kids out there too.

[Mod6]

Let's not forget that there are an awful lot of good kids out there too.

 

Quite so, and we must be careful in all discussions like this one not to get lost in over-generalisations or in being too judgemental.

[The Stationmaster]

Another problem is the increasingly 'risk free' (i.e. avoid any chance of being sued) society in which we live. With everyday life becoming increasingly anodyne the chance to break out of it, just a tiny bit, must become increasingly strong and for many things there seems to be no punishment or any sort of retribution. In fact it's now almost the other way round - a conker falls off your tree and hits someone on the head and you're up in front of the beak while meanwhile the scum kids from down the road (not ours fortunately) are out and about creating havoc and it's then everybody's fault and society's fault and they aren't responsible for their own actions. A complete reversal of the old days when the local copper gave you a clout round the head for scrumping apples whereas now you get taken to court for failing to safely maintain your apple tree when one of the little scrumpers falls out of it.

[S.A.C Martin]

Let's not forget that there are an awful lot of good kids out there too.

 

Definitely.

 

But there's an adage my grandmother - former English Teacher - always told me. "There are no bad children, only those who are taught badly". By no means is it restricted to teaching: parents and adults in the media are great influences on the development of children from a young age, and on several fronts this country - and I would challenge, a lot of the Western World - are letting down kids from a very early age.

 

Be it, in unsuitable children's programming on the telly, dismissive parents with no sense of balance or order, and teachers who to a great extent have far too many to count in their classes and thus must fit every round peg into a square hole.

 

What the answer is - I don't rightly know. But I have observed that with a generation which is becoming steadily more reliant on children's television in their development, year on year, that various programmes which you would assume are suitable, are no longer so, and that what they watch in their youngest years does impact greatly on their behavioural patterns in later life.

 

That's why I wanted to take on the "no.1 children's brand" in terms of storytelling, and it's why I find myself researching a broader range of children's programs and finding out exactly what makes them tick from this point on. There are so many children's brands out there which have few if any moral values, and are little more than an excuse to sell toys (T&F take note is one of them), but equally there are some which are extremely educative as well as being entertaining (Fireman Sam a good one still).

 

In short, the way the youngest generations of today act is a problem that has many avoidable factors, and most of it in the earliest period of their development.

[BlackRat]

Far far more goods kids than bad, they just get on with it, quietly, as they have done for generations.

 

Be thankful you only met the others once, some of us get to meet them daily, sometimes several times a day and there's no respite. Day in, day out its the same.

 

Same problem kids, same problem families.

 

Ask any teacher, social worker, health worker, district nurse, copper., taxi driver, shop assistant, etc etc etc.

 

Most just walk on by, hoping if they ignore it it will all go away.

 

it wont, and its not getting any better.

 

You heard it here first, lol!

[Southernman46]

 

Many were failing it because they saw every (or almost every) potential hazard and clicked accordingly. The system considered that they were clicking too much and scored a zero for each clip.

 

 

I'm currently studying for my LGV Class 2 licence and the hazard perception practice is proving frustrating because I'm clicking as I see the developing hazard but this is often too early to score the 5 points so I'm having to click again immediatelly after to ensure that I'm in the "point scoring" timeframe...........

 

Anybody that's feeling frustrated over the subject of yobbo's etc... I would recommend watching the film "Harry Brown" starring Michael Caine.........kind of sums it up.

[Leicester Thumper]

I think that's the problem.

 

bad parenting/infant education and also the kids are pushing their boundaries cause of all these 'equality' things.

 

I Went to a comprehensive school in Leicester, from 2003 - 2006 and those were the three longest years, most depressing years and most stressful years of my life thus far.

 

Ok, I have a mental disability, some people do. No big deal to me, I am still human like everyone else, I should follow the same rules and get treated equally like everyone else.

 

in the eyes of the schoolkids. No. hey he's different, let's bully him, hey he's intelligent, lets take the mick out of him. I have a long tongue, doesn't inhibit my speech now since i know how to control it, but they took the mick out of how i said things. the school was useless. they never adhered to my Special educational needs statement, and for 2 and a half years I never received my allocated support (in the end i just pushed as hard as i could...).

 

I wouldn't say I was the snitch at school, cause i aint that sort of guy. If someone bullied me, I would go to the relevant persons and explain the situation, and i always explained to them, yes the bullying has hurt and upset me a lot, but i don't want them to hold a grudge i just want them to understand that we are all equal humans, we are subject to the same rules and same uniform, I just wanted them to know that we are to be treated fairly and equally, and that since i treated them from a neautral standpoint, i expected the same back. Next thing you know the following break I have 10 kids after me trying to physically harm me and I was near enough in a fight once a week. and I aint a guy for fighting, i aint for it, i did nothing wrong. absolutely nothing wrong and thats what i got.

 

to top it off my ''friends'' suddenly decided they were not my friends when I was being bullied....

 

tells you a lot about kids these days and thats from an 18 year old!!!

 

EDIT: then again, thinking about it, it was on the edge of a housing estate.. although to my experiance, housing estates are not always that bad