Erudhalion Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 My grandmother, knowing of my interest in railway matters, recently gave me a couple of family heirlooms of sorts, belonging to my great great grandfather. My great great grandfather was probably called Walter Wrench (not entirely sure of his first name), lived in Stamford Hill, London and probably started his working life in 1875. He is thought to have been a signalman or something similar. The items in question are two whistles and two handles, I have included photos of them. The first is a pea whistle, black, probably made of Bakelite, or some similar material, with a separate brownish fipple plug which is held in with a thin metal rod, seemingly brass. As you can see from the photo, it is clearly marked G.E.R., which fits in with the area where my grandmother's family lived. As you can see, it was the used as a key ring, but I have no idea what the key is for. The second is entirely made of brass and is quite worn, the only markings that can be made out are "olitan" and written underneath it "J. Hudson &" and still below that "13" and an "r". Also inside one of the two rectangular holes I can make out the word "patent" and in the other "Hudson & Co.". On The two photos are of the two sides of the whistle. Also you can see what looks to me like some sort of repair around the join between the mouthpiece and the barrel of the whistle, where there is a small length of greyish metal. On to the handles. The larger one is brass with a presumably iron square axle and has some incrustations of a black, hard but slightly rubbery substance on one side, as can be seen from the photos. It is full of scratches and small dents, including some not so small ones, like the one just below the bulge on the shaft, on the side without the black deposits The other is made of two parts: it has a shaft with a tapered square tip and three grooves around halfway between the tip and the hole at the other end, through which the ring passes. The ring has no markings I can make out, apart from a patch of rust where it goes through the hole. From the patterns of rust on it, it looks like it might be iron plated with something, but I might well be wrong. I'd like to know if anybody can tell me anything more about these items. The only thing I have found out is that the brass whistle is probably a "Metropolitan" model police whistle, but I'm not totally certain because of the worn state of the markings. Is there any chance it could be anything to do with the Metropolitan Railway? Another thing I'd like to know is what the two handles were used for, and how old they and the whistles could be. Thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethevans1986 Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 The "door handles" are carridge keys aka "T" keys - which are still used today. http://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/p-975-carriage-key.aspx GE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 22, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 22, 2011 I don't think the brass finished one is a key - it has no taper and appears to have fitted inside something judging by the 'collar'. I think the other is most likely a key although possibly not robust enough to be a carriage key. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I don't think the brass finished one is a key - it has no taper and appears to have fitted inside something judging by the 'collar'. Looks like a door handle proper (although not necessarily a carriage door) pressed into service as a carriage/budget lock key. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I think the small tapered key with a ring is probably for securing or unsecuring the gangway doors on corridor coaches. The key stays with the coach but having a spare is no hardship. Usually only guards or shunters would have these keys. I don't know about the other items although the brass whistle certainly looks like an early police pattern one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted August 22, 2011 Share Posted August 22, 2011 I don't think the brass finished one is a key - it has no taper and appears to have fitted inside something judging by the 'collar'. I think the other is most likely a key although possibly not robust enough to be a carriage key. Mike, the fact that there's no taper on it doesn't necessarily mean it's not a carriage key. The BR carriage key I was issued (in 1965) had no taper on the very small piece which actually fitted into the lock. The connection between that piece and the handle was so flimsy that I half-expected it to snap any time I used it. I really envied the solid, tapered ex-GSWR key one of our leading porters was still using over 40 years after that railway had gone! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erudhalion Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Thanks for the replies! I imagined the handles were something to do with carriages, but when my grandmother said he was a signalman I thought they might be for something else. Come to think of it, I have no real guarantee that the brass handle is a railway related item, the box it came from is full of assorted object of various kinds, I thought it looked likely. As for the brass whistle, I'm almost certain its a police one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 23, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 23, 2011 Mike, the fact that there's no taper on it doesn't necessarily mean it's not a carriage key. The BR carriage key I was issued (in 1965) had no taper on the very small piece which actually fitted into the lock. The connection between that piece and the handle was so flimsy that I half-expected it to snap any time I used it. I really envied the solid, tapered ex-GSWR key one of our leading porters was still using over 40 years after that railway had gone! Doesn't sound like a proper key for a budget lock to me. There was one pattern of carriage key which came with the short squared end which was meant to be used on various internal locks on Mk 1 & Mk2 stock and on through lighting control switches, there was a normal pattern budget lock key (i.e. tapered) on another arm of it and the third arm was a female pattern key with part pressed in to make the part which engaged with an internal slot - I forgot what they were for now but whatever it was meant to unlock I recall they were forever breaking (which is the state if the one I still have). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stuartp Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I have two 'proper' BR carriage keys in my desk here. One is the three-pronged trouser ripper as described by Mike, and the other sounds like pH's: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 ... and the other sounds like pH's: That is indeed the one I was trying to describe, Stuart. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pH Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Just to revive an old topic (please excuse quoting my own post): I really envied the solid, tapered ex-GSWR key one of our leading porters was still using over 40 years after that railway had gone! ... like this one! http://www.ebay.com/itm/281144313018?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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