How much to tool and produce a new class 90?

[Nile_Griffith]

Hello Kids

 

As oft happens to me while I'm sat listening to someone else drone on. A notion or thought pops into my head and I'm left to wonder on the what ifs'.

 

I was bought "The Boys Book Of Airfix" the other Christmas and reading through it's pages I was quite surprised to discover just how much it cost to create the patterns and eventual moulds for the various Airfix kits. Now there is always more than an element of debate by forum members as to what we would like to see stacked on the shelves of our favourite model shops. But what I am curious to know is this. Just how much does it cost to manufacture, from inception to boxed and ready for sale. A completely new model Loco.

 

So following my particular modelling bias. Here is my question. How much to manufacture a new class 90 electric locomotive?

 

I've chosen the 90 more because the present Hornby offering is woeful on every count (not because I think it's a particularly handsome machine at all) and I think it's fair to say that any new tooling would have to be completely new to make it an attractive proposition to modellers and collectors. Also and to the best of my knowledge there isn't an appropriate chassis just sitting waiting around for a suitable class 90 body to plonk on top of (you watch somebody tell me otherwise). So a new class 90 would indeed have to be a completely new 90.

 

So gang? Whats the informed opinion..... How much?

 

Cheers to all.

[The Stationmaster]

I would think you must be talking about £120,000 as the starting point then it all depends on the level of specification, quality of the mechanical etc. DCC arrangements and standard of decoration all of which require design consideration and the necessary tooling and purchasing arrangements. Plus the fares to&from China and hotel bills etc of course.

[spamcan61]

The only factual information in the public domain I can think of is the MR interview with Bachmann guys maybe 3 years back, they were talking around 100K GBP for a steam loco IIRC. I'll see if I can dig the article out and see if there is any further info.

 

OK if you can share parts with existing models then that obviously knocks a bit off the bill, probably more scope for that on the powertrain for an electric compared with steam.

[frobisher]

Also and to the best of my knowledge there isn't an appropriate chassis just sitting waiting around for a suitable class 90 body to plonk on top of (you watch somebody tell me otherwise).

 

Heljan's class 86 chassis... Would need different detailing parts obviously, but the chassis and power train are spot on.

[Bernard Lamb]

How long is a piece of string?

I would go along with Mike re around £120k for a model designed and made by one of the regular players.

If a newcomer were to undertake the task it could be done for a lot less. If they knew what they were doing that is. But then if they knew what they were doing they would almost certainly not be prepared to take the risk. How big a run? You can make cheapo 'soft' tooling that will not last or very expensive 'hard' tooling and use it for many production runs over a long period. You can work from dra\wings or get a laser scan done. You can design the most accurate model ever but not be able to source any one to make it for you. You can source the complete model, or obtain the parts from several sources in different countries. You can pay for the design work or get it done as a project by a college. I could name two Universities that must have saved my old company a fortune over the years. It is far more involved than a simple question of how much.

Bernard

[Edge]

I agree witha ll of the points made so far in this thread. I was involved in the now defunct Blue Pullman project. there was a reason that we suddenly changed from a RTR model to a kit! The costs involved were quite simply astronomical. Even the most 'bare-bones' project would extend into the hundreds of thousands of pounds. All of which have to be paid out before you make a single penny in revenue.

 

Another word of warning that I would add is that the estimates we recieved from manufacturers were before the credit cunch and the drop in exchange rates against the pound. This would add even more to an already expensive project.

 

This might well have to be a case of 'wait for one'. The 90 is a fairly interesting modern design: and I don't doubt that the main manufacturers will have a new updated model in the future.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Same first thought. There is so little traction on the modern network that all of it is likely to get a RTR model, with the proviso of adequate sales: the diesels have been near cleaned out, now it is what electrics there are turn. If they sell, the badger will surface in about 2014/5...

[Nile_Griffith]

Thanks guys.

 

Have to concede that I wasn't particularly thinking of putting my hand in my own pocket to commission a model of a Class 90. Though the thought had crossed my mind with another couple of prototypes.

 

Choosing the 90 was not down to a particular preference or a burning desire to see one on the shelves (thats not to say I wouldn't buy one or two if there where). More that I wanted to pick an example of a loco that would have to be a complete blank sheet, not potentially a case of say adjustments to tooling to create a class 57 which was derived from a 47. Although as Frobisher put it. Heljan are part of the way there with their 86 Chassis.

 

As a business idea, would I consider it?.... No. Not that I don't think that the numbers in a straightforward way don't work. My reservation is the industry and the market itself. "Nile Industries Class 90 Locomotive" would never make it's way to the shelves of Hamleys and the few large toy retailers there are left, thereby giving an opportunity to contribute towards knocking a dent in the return on investment and if completely honest the niche market is just way to sceptical of any kind of new supplier. The costs required to make sure that any finished model is unquestionably accurate and prototypically fault free on launch and therefore not giving rise to a good kicking in the hobby press and in such august circles as this, would push the retail price up to far. Meaning that the model itself would possibly be deemed as a great example of a 90 but far to pricey.

 

Besides there is one fact that makes the class 90 a pretty bad choice for a first foray into the model market...... Pantograph....... need I say anymore.

 

Thanks to all for the various idea's and points of view.