Signalling advice for my 1980s china clay layout

[TomJ]

I've currently got a bit of downtime on my layout St Petrocs (due to me breaking the loft ladder/hatch - don't ask), so trying to use the time to think about signals. Its a china clay scene in the 1980s, which will be all semaphore signalled - sort of inspired by (but not based on) Goonbarrow and Boscarne Junctions. The plan below shows the trackplan. Basically from the left hand end trains can enter either side of the loop or the reception sidings for the clay works (three possible options). The inner loop on the right hand end is a run down freight only line. The station is at position B on the plan so obviously this line needs to be bi-directional.

 

 

I think there are two choices for operation. Firstly have it as a passing loop for passenger and freight side, this would mean both lines would have to be bi-directional. Or secondly consider it a simple junction for the clayworks and the branch, and so the right hand crossover would be just for running round/shunting. This would seem to me to be simpler in signalling terms.

 

I've only returned to modelling a couple of years ago and am still rather baffled about signalling. Does each route option need its own signal or arm? If so I can see myself needing a lot of junction signals, and maybe even a three arm one for the left hand end.

 

Any advice or suggestions gratefully recieved

[The Stationmaster]

Easy answer is no signals at all - although you couldn't then have you passing loop idea, the running line points points would all be worked by ground frames released by the token and trains could be still 'shut-in' in the sidings. However if you want more flexibility and want some signals it is going to be quite a lot for a small area - definitely not flavour of the month on the WR in the 1980s but if you wish I'll knock up a sketch for you?

[TomJ]

Hi Stationmaster

Thanks for the reply. I hadn't cconsidered the no signals approach but as I quite like semaphores and have just finished a rather nice signal box I think I ought to signal it. I know the Newquay branch had a reasonable selection of semaphores in the early 80s and this is the look I'm going for.

 

If you could produce a signal sketch that would be very kind. Something as simple as possible would be great!!

Huge thanks

[The Stationmaster]

Right, here we go. I've taken you 1980 date and considered what rationalisation might have happened by then in the signalling but with the potential for a few 'hangovers' from earlier yeras which were left when work was carried out. The loop has ceased to be a crossing loop for freight trains and the right hand crossover is used solely for run-rounds which helps ensure a bit of 'deforestation' and reduces the impression of 'over signalling' - I hope.

 

Reading from the left there is an (Advanced?) Starting Signal which gives you a bit of headroom to shunt, in advance should you need to, without entering the section. As we move right we come to an enlargement to more clearly show what's there - the big hangover from the past is the three doll bracket although it might well in reality have fallen down by the 1980s and been replaced by the single post signal and disc arrangement we see elsewhere in this location; I think you might like that bracket as adding a bit of atmosphere but the choice is yours. There's a single disc reading out of the adjacent siding.

 

We then come to a simple stop signal on the passenger line protecting the connections from the sidings and also another single disc protecting those connections from the former loop (I haven't shown a trap point here but there should be one - you need to think about the way it would be arranged in view of the position of the connection into the sidings; a 'half slip is one possibility). The sidings have seen a bit of rationalisation with a single yellow arm (hence the letter 'Y') covering both of them for moves out onto the running line or into the siding across the running line in that direction.

 

At the right hand end the running line has stop signals in each direction to protect the crossover connection and the one reading from the right has a co-located disc to read into the loop. There is also disc coming out of the loop reading towards either the running line or the run down branch. Coming off the bracnch is another bit of overlooked history with a semaphore not only still in place but carrying a 'Goods Line' ring on the arm - a rarity by the 1980s but not entirely unknown.

 

Finally on extreme right you have another Advanced Starter basically there to prevent locos etc off runrounds charging off into the distance.

 

N.B. None of the running semaphores are properly named because I don't know where you'll be putting the signalbox.

[TomJ]

That's really helpful, far, far more useful than I could have hoped for. Many thanks for your time and help. I like the idea of having a 'hangover' from the older era of the three doll signal and the goods only signal - I was a die-hard kettle fan but have recently got interested in the BR blue of my childhood and one thing that really appeals is the mix of modernish stock and steam era infrastructure.

 

I like the idea of simplifying it so the loop is purely for run rounds, it gives that feel of rationalisation and decay, of an infrastructure that may well not last much longer. And it saves me building quite as many signals. I've not decided where exactly the signal box will go, probably opposite the platform, between the loop and the exchange sidings.

 

I hadn't thought about a trap point - thanks for reminding me. I'm modelling in N gauge and I don't think one is avaliable although I know a chap on here as done a pretty good job making a dummy one from plasticard so I'll have a look. I think the double slip will be replaced by two back to back points, for reliability, but that shouldn't affect the signalling would it?

 

Once again huge thanks for your help. I'll post on my Layout Topics thread on here how I get on.

[The Stationmaster]

 

I hadn't thought about a trap point - thanks for reminding me. I'm modelling in N gauge and I don't think one is avaliable although I know a chap on here as done a pretty good job making a dummy one from plasticard so I'll have a look. I think the double slip will be replaced by two back to back points, for reliability, but that shouldn't affect the signalling would it?

It will mean a few minor changes - mainly moving things - bus basically no more different than putting things in slightly different places.

[Happy Hippo]

Tom,

 

Peco N Gauge SL 384/5 are what you need for traps points Peco call them catch points

 

Regards

 

Richard

[TomJ]

Hi Stationmaster (or indeed anyone else who can help!)

 

Thanks once again for the diagram. Am starting to built some signals but have a simple clarification. Where a normal home signal is marked with a disc for the freight how would they be arranged. Ie would it be a normal signal plus a disc located next to it, would the disc be located on the bottom of the post or would it be a bracket like a junction signal but with one arm replaced by the disc (I've seen this at Goonbarrow Junction). Trying to find out myself but going round in circles!

 

Many thanks

[The Stationmaster]

Hi Stationmaster (or indeed anyone else who can help!)

 

Thanks once again for the diagram. Am starting to built some signals but have a simple clarification. Where a normal home signal is marked with a disc for the freight how would they be arranged. Ie would it be a normal signal plus a disc located next to it, would the disc be located on the bottom of the post or would it be a bracket like a junction signal but with one arm replaced by the disc (I've seen this at Goonbarrow Junction). Trying to find out myself but going round in circles!

Many thanks

You can use either and be right although it does depend on period and the nature of the stop signal - simplest arrangement is like this but with a tubular steel post in your case -