Matloughe Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Good Morning, I am wondering if I can make some queries with you guys, the experts here on layout design. Its a Southern Railway/Region BLT with a trackplan originally based on South Hayling but as with most projects it has been modified somewhat to produce a more 'generic' style BLT. First Question is what sort of goods facilities should be included in the goods yard? This is the yard, the right-hand track is going to have a couple of coal bins for the local fictitious coal merchant, centre road with the goods shed will remain the 'shed' road but a more in-keeping goods shed most likely copied from South Hayling will replace the stone one here. And the furthest track with the vent van and Brake van will have a end loading dock. Coal Merchant (Thinking on the name of "Pratt & Sons") - what sort of facilities would they require, presumably a hut of of some description for basic accommodation and a couple of coal 'bins' for coal out of the wagons but waiting to be loaded into bags. End Loading dock - all the photos I have found of South Hayling show this road to rarely be occupied I am guessing this would be used to cart large items on flat trucks such as farm machinery etc. But what other clutter would be present in a goods yard as its something I haven't really had much experience with. Second Question is Signalbox Location The line emerges from a short tunnel/long bridge from the bottom right (underneath the London & Country Leyland Atlantean) and then splits unto the bay road and main platform roads. I originally had the signal box adjacent to the first point on the left hand side - I was thinking of single line token exchange when I placed it there however I want the left hand side of this photo to be sloping upwards to try and give the impression the station has been placed where it has due to a natural occurring levelling out of the land - the hill from the bridge will finish roughly ahead of where the red Routemaster is standing so there will be further slopes to re-enforce this view. Examining other Branch lines such as Hawkhurst I have found there was no 'set' location for a signalbox - however would its position here adjacent to the headshunt cause issues? I was thinking of modelling a board crossing to allow the signalman to cross the lines and exchange tokens on the platform with train crews and to accept the incoming token by standing between the head shunt and main platform approach road from the board crossing. I'd appreciate any input on this - or any other issues spotted from these two photos I am not trying to make a 100% perfect model of a 'generic' branch terminus but I am trying to cover all bases where operational requirements may affect the placement of buildings. Thank you in advance. ~ Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absolute Aspects Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Seeing as you have some room at the end of your platform, have you though about Bachmann superbe art deco signalboxes. It would fit nicly at the end of the platform and look great along with your green EPB.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2011 1. Many good yards had a crane of some sort - very useful on agricultural areas or where machines and vehicles need to be unloaded. Similarly an end (or even side) unloading dock could be kept quite busy in the days before road transport really developed but quiet in later years as you have observed. As far as coal merchants are concerned I think you're on the button with what you have in mind (some just let their workers, or themselves, shelter in the cab of their delivery lorry and didn't waste money on a hut). Don't forget - as we've been exploring on another thread - the need for working space for road vehicles between or alongside your sidings http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/46137-new-loft-layout-plan/page__hl__loft+layout__fromsearch__1 2. If there is room I think the best place for the signalbox would be off the platform end between the two platform lines. Failing that I would not have it separated from the running lines by a siding which might be occupied by vehicles (especially on a single line) but would site it adjacent to the yard end of the crossover off the running line to ensure a walkway for token handling and it minimises rodding run lengths. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 looks like a smaller version of Lakeside (on windermere) although lakeside does not come through a tunnel. the signal box there is on the end of the long platform which would be where your radiator is, however as you're using an island platform I'd put the signal box in the bottom left corner of the last photo you posted. That way the signalman can see the whole station, yard etc (there might be some ground frames in the further reaches of the yard near the coal line) his best view being of the passenger lines and in the correct place to receive / give single track working tokens if applicable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2011 looks like a smaller version of Lakeside (on windermere) Apart from the fact that Lakeside had 3 platforms, extensive sidings (for coach stabling) etc and the signalbox was sited fairly centrally in respect of all that lot in the best place for observing movements and token exchanges (see below). the signal box there is on the end of the long platform which would be where your radiator is, however as you're using an island platform I'd put the signal box in the bottom left corner of the last photo you posted. That way the signalman can see the whole station, yard etc (there might be some ground frames in the further reaches of the yard near the coal line) his best view being of the passenger lines and in the correct place to receive / give single track working tokens if applicable. Putting the signalbox back near the first divergence would remove it from the best view of the layout it controls and mean that both arriving and departing trains would have to slow for token exchange then re-accelerate. Apart from which it would be further from the greatest concentration of points thus increasing costs and reducing safety/the ability to see handsignals and it might - in prototype terms mean having to provide a ground frame for the release crossover which could probably be avoided if it were sited by the main concentration of pointwork/at the platform end. Putting the signalbox back near the first divergence would remove it from the best view of the layout it controls and mean that both arriving and departing trains would have to slow for token exchange then re-accelerate. Apart from which it would be further from the greatest concentration of points thus increasing costs and reducing safety/the ability to see handsignals and it might - in prototype terms mean having to provide a ground frame for the release crossover which could probably be avoided if it were sited by the main concentration of pointwork/at the platform end. I'm slightly puzzled by the reference to 'ground frames' as the points there would be hand worked. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Sheep Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 sorry, stationmaster is correct. I was picturing Lakeside in it's current form but adding a goods line or two in my head, forgetting about the loco facilities and the extent of the goods yard. It's been a while since I was last up there and in my head the points furthest left on the plan stationmaster has posted are by the signal box (which is not the case) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 16, 2011 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 16, 2011 It's been a while since I was last up there and in my head the points furthest left on the plan stationmaster has posted are by the signal box (which is not the case) The points are indeed away from the 'box although it looks even further seen from this angle (n.b. this view was taken during a safety audit with permission to be on the lineside in that location; in fact the Company's GM was acting as my Lookout ). Due apologies to the OP but this does show how the signalbox at this sort of station would be unlikely to be near the first points reached by an arriving train but instead near the main concentration of pointwork (mostly now removed of course). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted October 16, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 16, 2011 Purely from the appearance side of things I would also suggest placing the signal box at the end of the platforms. The front view of a signal box always seems that much more interesting than the back! It would also allow the signalman to deal with a token with a train in either the main or the bay platform without the need to cross any tracks. For the goods yard, some sort of specialist local traffic always adds a bit of interest. Such things as a platform for loading farm implements from a local manufacturer or something like the famous sausage traffic at Calne give an excuse to run wagons out of the ordinary general BLT range. Round our way, there were facilities for things like the potato harvest and sugar beet, which had quite high platforms where carts could be tipped straight into open wagons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matloughe Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 No Apologies necessary, this is an insightful thread which has helped me quite a bit. I've moved the signalbox further along to where the yard points diverge from the look/headshunt roughly parallel with the end of the platforms. Thinking on it Stationmaster you are generally correct on signalbox positioning places like Horsted Keynes, Tunbridge Wells West, Groombridge all have their signalboxes near the greatest concentration of point work - there are some exceptions to this rule I can think of as well however. I will model a board crossing as an 'authorised' walking route for the signalman to exchange tokens with trains. I am thinking of sticking to Hayling Island's principles of operation. The only special traffic I can think of is Oysters from Hayling so I might have that as the odd wagon attached to a train but I don't want a gimmicky special reason for the line to exist. as far as I am concerned the main reason for the line remaining open is Summer Traffic where I have been preparing an intensive timetable for passenger traffic using 3-coach sets and trains arriving into the main platform then shunted to the bay to wait for the next train to clear the single line and arrive before departure. Whereas the Winter Timetable only really sees 1 or 2-coach sets and a mix of passenger and mixed trains as well. I had considered the fantastic Art Deco signalbox from Bachmann for another Minories based plan; however it wouldn't fit satisfactorily into an L shape in the space given and I can't get ahold of a Horsted Keynes Signalbox for love or money at the moment so the Hornby Skaledale one seen here will have to suffice I intend to paint it into Southern Railway Green & Cream to make it look more like 'the part' the EPB is a gorgeous model, the gap behind it will be where the station buildings will be placed; I was hoping to use the stationmaster's house and ticket hall from the scenecraft Sheffield Park - however I don't think it'll fit in the space. I am sure its becoming apparent that this will have a distinct LB&SCR flavour to it - I am also considering having a 'Terrier' only days for the layout - perhaps the little A1x's could dominate the winter timetable in the absence of needing anything bigger on a single coach train. Thank you all for your input; and any additional input you may have. ~ Gary Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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