Gritty Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Hi all, new to the world of dcc sound I took the plunge the other day and fitted a zimo chip into my ews 37419 all went well including fitting the speakers in the fuel tanks. I popped it on the track and fired it up...success it sounded great but when I tried to move away it was very jerky, contacted the chaps at digitrains who were very helpful and suggested tweaking a few cv's, I tried this and at one point the loco wouldn't even move I put the cv values back but still wouldn't move so I reset the chip and started again I have now got a loco that suddenly shoots off ( could prove interesting when shunting lol!) and then does a couple of laps before stopping! So I was wondering has any one fitted a zimo chip (MX645R) to their 37 if so how does it run and what cv's have you changed and to what any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nimbamoss Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Hi Andy, If you do asearch in the DC sound forum you will find a lot of information from Paul Chetter, the "guru" for the 37 zimo sounds and many others.He is on the forum as pauliebanger Good luck, I have the Digitrains Zimo 37 chip in my 37003, I had it on a test track at the Caistor (Lincs) show as a demonstrator and it was fantastic to play with, especially on the multidrive settings. Try http://www.rmweb.co....which-speakers/ and http://www.rmweb.co....hmann-class-37/ and http://www.rmweb.co....012#entry379012 Good luck with your problem. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Hi all, new to the world of dcc sound I took the plunge the other day and fitted a zimo chip into my ews 37419 all went well including fitting the speakers in the fuel tanks. I popped it on the track and fired it up...success it sounded great but when I tried to move away it was very jerky, contacted the chaps at digitrains who were very helpful and suggested tweaking a few cv's, I tried this and at one point the loco wouldn't even move I put the cv values back but still wouldn't move so I reset the chip and started again I have now got a loco that suddenly shoots off ( could prove interesting when shunting lol!) and then does a couple of laps before stopping! So I was wondering has any one fitted a zimo chip (MX645R) to their 37 if so how does it run and what cv's have you changed and to what any help would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance Andy Andy. First of all, I don't know your experience. If I ask questions or make suggestions that seem 'basic' to you, please bear with me because I cannot just assume some things. DCC (and sound especially) is susceptable to dirty track, wheels and pick-ups, more so than DC I think, because as well as providing the power it also transmits the signalsto the decoders. So a prerequisite is thourough cleanliness, try cleaning these items. One of the ways that dirty track can manifest itself is that the signals confuse the decoder into thinking it's on a DC track, and off it goes full chat!! Some thing that can help is to fit stay alive capacitors. The MX645R has special circuit on-board to make this easy. There is normally a small capacitor included in the pack. Did you buy your decoder from Digitrains? Is it the Multi-Drive version? What did Digitrains suggest for CV changes? What DCC controller are you using? If this is a Digitrains 37 it should operate Bachmann 37s without adjustment, providing the loco is in good order. You say you have re-set the decoder. Which method did you use? (ie, CV8 = 0 or CV8 = 8) The incorrect re-set method will remove the customised CVs (and can wipe the sound sound files too!!). The project will not work as intended without the correct CVs. Let me know and I'll get back to you with some suggestions to solve your problems. In the meantime here's someting worth checking right away. Can you read the current CVs? What value is in CV 29? If it is 6, then DC is enabled. Change it to CV29 = 2 and this should stop the 'runaway train' effect. Kind regards, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritty Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 Andy. First of all, I don't know your experience. If I ask questions or make suggestions that seem 'basic' to you, please bear with me because I cannot just assume some things. Basic is fine, I like basic DCC (and sound especially) is susceptable to dirty track, wheels and pick-ups, more so than DC I think, because as well as providing the power it also transmits the signalsto the decoders. So a prerequisite is thourough cleanliness, try cleaning these items. Both track and wheels are quite clean, I popped the old chip (non sound) back in and it ran nice and smooth One of the ways that dirty track can manifest itself is that the signals confuse the decoder into thinking it's on a DC track, and off it goes full chat!! Some thing that can help is to fit stay alive capacitors. The MX645R has special circuit on-board to make this easy. There is normally a small capacitor included in the pack. Yep, fitted Did you buy your decoder from Digitrains? Is it the Multi-Drive version? What did Digitrains suggest for CV changes? Yep from digitrains and multidrive, they suggested I change CV 56, 57 and 58, had a bit of a tinker and the loco went from trying to move in it's jerky fashion to speeding off. What DCC controller are you using? NCE powercab, and decoder pro. If this is a Digitrains 37 it should operate Bachmann 37s without adjustment, providing the loco is in good order. Was and still is a good runner with it's original (well Hornby) chip You say you have re-set the decoder. Which method did you use? (ie, CV8 = 0 or CV8 = 8) The incorrect re-set method will remove the customised CVs (and can wipe the sound sound files too!!). The project will not work as intended without the correct CVs. I used cv8 = 8 and it seemed to work ok still got the growly sound it had when first tried Let me know and I'll get back to you with some suggestions to solve your problems. In the meantime here's someting worth checking right away. Can you read the current CVs? What value is in CV 29? If it is 6, then DC is enabled. Change it to CV29 = 2 and this should stop the 'runaway train' effect. Ok this was set at 6 but can't get to it to change without waking kids up (layouts in the roof!) Kind regards, Paul Answers to your questions above Thanks Paul, heres hoping you can help. Don't suppose you have a list of what the CV's are supposed to be so I can check them? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 If you were using DecoderPro,your first action on getting a new loco should be "read everything" and then store the file. That way you know the defaults which came with the chip from the supplier. Then consider tinkering. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Answers to your questions above Thanks Paul, heres hoping you can help. Don't suppose you have a list of what the CV's are supposed to be so I can check them? Andy, I did not notice the 'bubblegum smiley' in my last post. It was not intentional, I typed, need to be careful here, the figure eight followed by a 'close parenthesis' and the forum's software thought it knew my mind better than me. Could be awkward in the wrong circumstances!! OK. Using CV8=8 will have reset the decoder to Zimo defaults, the customised CVs will now be lost. (CV8=0 resets to the state in the last uploaded sound project). This is not a disaster if all the sound files are still present, but it is inconvenient. These CVs should put things back as they should be: 3=40 4=40 29=2 35=0 36=0 37=0 38=0 39=0 40=0 41=0 42=4 57=100 61=97 273=20 310=1 311=1 Cv42=4 is to put the cab lights onto F8 You can do so much more with Zimo lighting, but please download the current 'small decoder' manual before trying. Better still, use decoder pro? When you've done this, let me know how the loco now runs. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritty Posted October 20, 2011 Author Share Posted October 20, 2011 Hi Paul thanks for the follow up hadn't had chance to get on with my loco as work got in the way, but heres where I stand now; All CV's checked and are all as above so no need to change All caps removed All wheels and a length of track given a good clean given a good clean Retried the loco with the same results and this time noticed that the brake squeal occurs after the loco has stopped! Concerned that I may be missing something or that I have been over critical the loco is currently with a friend who has better knowledge on these matters to try on his layout so I'll let you know the outcome of that. Cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Andy, These decoders normally provide outstanding slow speed running, Zimo built their reputation in motor control, so you are entitled to expect excellence. OK. Apart from the poor running, the brake sounds are designed to stop when the motor stops so there is clearly a problem. (Stating the obvious). This is not an issue that I have come across before, so I can't advise from experience*. I would begin by checking out the Back EMF settings since this clues all point to motor control. Please let me know how you get on. Paul * I do have some experience of this with Heljan 'O' gauge which use 2 motors. Fine tuning of the BEMF CVs is sometimes needed to overcome less than perfect running in speed steps 1 and 2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritty Posted October 21, 2011 Author Share Posted October 21, 2011 Paul, Well my friend tried the loco on his layout with exactly the same results, when I got it back this afternoon I put it on my layout and ran it around for a bit, I stopped it, brake squeal after 1-2 seconds and left it idling while I did some other bits and bobs and noticed that when it was sat there rattling away every now and then I heard flange squeal! surely that can't be right so I banged off an e-mail listing whats been happening to digitrains asking if they have any idea or whether to send it back to be checked/reblown, we'll see what happens. I also jury rigged the decoder into a new vitrains 37 and it struggled to move! Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted October 21, 2011 Share Posted October 21, 2011 Paul, Well my friend tried the loco on his layout with exactly the same results, when I got it back this afternoon I put it on my layout and ran it around for a bit, I stopped it, brake squeal after 1-2 seconds and left it idling while I did some other bits and bobs and noticed that when it was sat there rattling away every now and then I heard flange squeal! surely that can't be right so I banged off an e-mail listing whats been happening to digitrains asking if they have any idea or whether to send it back to be checked/reblown, we'll see what happens. I also jury rigged the decoder into a new vitrains 37 and it struggled to move! Andy Andy, Oh dear! Are you certain it is flange squeal? The roof fan has a clutch take-up spund which is short, but does sound like flange. This is a random sound which operates in drive and whilst standing, so this would be normal. My ViTrains run great with Zimo, so either there is a fault with the decoder, or CVs need adjusting. The brake sound is related to Back EMF, so this could still be consistent with a CV problem. What values are currently in CVs 56, 57 and 58? Do you have the Zimo decoder manual? Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gritty Posted October 30, 2011 Author Share Posted October 30, 2011 Hi Paul, I returned the chip to digitrains and Jeremy confirmed that the sound was the fan he reset the chip and tested it in a loco and ran it with no faults and returned it. I refitted it to my 37 still the same issues, so not to be beaten I tried it one last time in the Vitrains 37......runs perfect, so happy that the decoder works but not to pleased that it doesn't in the loco I modified to fit the speakers. S now I need to investigate the poor running of this loco, as it runs poorly with it's original chip in now! So thanks to everyone for the constructive replies, hopefully I'll sort the duff loco out and my next sound installation will run smoother. Cheers all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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