RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted October 28, 2011 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2011 Coming to the end of my first non RTR coach project - 2 x L10s. Have really enjoyed the build process. Painting is almost complete ( I swore I wouldn't paint another clerestory before I bought these kits......) My question - would a full brake to Diagram L10 have had any branding - lettering or logos/coats of arms, and what lettering would have appeared on the doors ("Parcels" or "Guard")? Thanks in advance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 A full brake would have similar branding to other coaching stock of the period, and would likely have "Guard" on the door to the guards compartment and "Parcels" on the other doors. However, L10s were, IIRC, mail stowage vans not full brakes and as such would likely have been branded as per other TPO vehicles. Again IIRC, there is a photo in Russell Vol 1 of a pair of mail vehicles being slipped. The caption is all about one of the vehicles, but I believe the other vehicle is an L10. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted October 30, 2011 Share Posted October 30, 2011 There is not a great deal of livery information I can find regarding the L10's. Time period is another condideration. If running as a TPO stowage van, then it can be assumed they carried the same ornate livery as the sorting carriages. I have painted mine to match the L6,L8 and L9 net carriers. In the pre 1st world war period they had the entwined GWR the narrow chocolate panel. This is based on known photographs of the net carriers and as such my L9, L10 & K17 have been painted to match. For once a uniform GWR train! If you can find them, Tony Hammond produced sides for many of the clerestory TPO net vehicles that ran with the L10. Good luck Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted November 1, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 1, 2011 Mike, Adrian, Thanks. I am almost in possesson of a 2m shelf of good reference stuff including many Russells, Slinn, Bradshaws etc, but without the space in my present abode, they are languishing with M.I.B Snr close to the "Withered Arm". Hence lots of questions. I am now at a slight quandry as I bought and built the L10s for 2 reasons, firstly to go beyond modifying RTR, and secondly to "beef up" 2 small rakes of Triangs beautifully repainted by M.I.B Snr in 1967. Although a rake of clerestories behind St David is a little late for my chosen time period, I allowed licience. Now I am wondering if I shouldn't pop the L10s into Royal Mail use along with my other mail vehicles, and build some more clerestory passenger stock. Alternatively, I could add the Royal Mail branding and slip them on the end of the Triangs, as stowage vans. I did not fit the gangway ends. Mike - what colour did you paint the grilles in the doors of your L10s? Mine are currently cream and they look a little odd. Adrian, which door is the Guard's door? There is one on one side and the other side has 2 doors. One opposite the single door, and one at the other end. Once again, many thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Mike, Adrian, Thanks. Mike - what colour did you paint the grilles in the doors of your L10s? Mine are currently cream and they look a little odd. Adrian, which door is the Guard's door? There is one on one side and the other side has 2 doors. One opposite the single door, and one at the other end. Once again, many thanks. I painted them black for no other reason than they would match the rest of my clerestory TPO train. A friend recently visited Cornwall to measure up the Ex TPO 841 now a camping coach for a planned etched kit. There is evidence from the restoration images seen that the window bars were black at some time. The GWR coach gurus up here insist that in full brown and cream the L10's were only ever Mail stowage vans. As general service vehicles with gangways removed they were in all over brown. I am due a visit on Friday so i will check the GWR register to see what is listed about the L10 and report back. I am told they ceased mail operations by the early thirties, having only had minimal use in the twenties due to the availability of large 70ft stowage vans (centre gangway) as access was not required by sorting staff (or run with used with K9 'converter' van). The introduction of the Steel stock in the early 30's left the L15 and K17 as the only clerestory mail vans in regular use in mail trains. (K17 lasted to BR). Regards Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 Adrian, which door is the Guard's door? None, since they wouldn't have had a guard's compartment - they would either have been used as mail stowage vans or later, as Mike suggests, as general service stowage vans (parcels vans etc, not brakes - similar to the Siphons that were used as parcels vans). In this case they likely had no branding on the doors as it was unlikely that passengers would be trying to board them. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted November 2, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 2, 2011 Thank you both so much. These will then become mail stowage vans slipped behind the clerestory passenger rakes, and only used when the blantantly late GW stock is not seen (4-6-0 County and Hawksworth rake, Collett rake behind my improved Hall). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 Russell's Volume 1 Fig 232 (page 230) is the picture I mentioned above. The nearer vehicle is almost certainly an L10, although the caption doesn't identify it, as it is more concerned with M8 no. 837 which was a slip stowage van (ex Ocean Mails slip van). Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted November 4, 2011 Share Posted November 4, 2011 L10 Mail Vans- good news and bad news. Having spent this morning, going through the official GWR Coach register here is some information you may find useful. Good news is there were four built; bad news is three were rebuilt within a short time of entering service with full net apparatus and late fee boxes. Only one survived that the 247 Bettabitz coach is based on and even then it had additional windows put in 1917. 862 Entered traffic 1895 – rebuilt as L11 Net carrier ???? – Lav/window 5/20 withdrawn 3/34 863 Entered traffic 1895 – remained original condition until – Lav/window 3/17 withdrawn 4/34 864 Entered traffic 1895 – rebuilt as L11 Net carrier 1905 – Lav/window 3/20 withdrawn 1/34 865 Entered traffic 1895 – rebuilt as L11 Net carrier 1905 – Lav/window 2/20 withdrawn 3/34 And before everyone starts quoting Russell, to question the above, this is one of many inaccuracies within his four book set. The GWSG newsletter has been running a corrections series for the last two years to give you an idea of how many inaccuracies there are. A note about no 862. The actual rebuild does NOT officially appear in the register BUT as the photo below shows, it clearly was rebuilt as a L11 net carrier. The plans shown below the lavatory rebuilt 863 from 1917, the only one to remain as an L10. The plan shows 862 as well. It could well be that 862 had the lav fitted first and the net at a later date. The register also shows that all four vehicles kept their 6’4” bogies throughout their existence. The photograph Adrian refers to is shown in close up below and is actually an L8. An attempt was made to explain to me why this is so but I left my panel counting anorak at home so will not go into details here. One final note, when Bettabitz first introduced the L10, the photograph that appeared in Railway Modeller of a completed coach was actually an L11 complete with net and traductor gear. The shot of 862 should also help with the insignia All images from David Geen Collection Hope this is helpful Regards Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium M.I.B Posted November 7, 2011 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 7, 2011 Mike Many many thanks for your hard work, and also for the destination boards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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