LMS Bauxite

[Alan Kettlewell]

Morning All,

 

I wasn't sure whether to post this in the Painting & Weathering section however as it's about painting a 7mm model I guess there's a good chance of getting a response or two here.

 

Having recently made the conversion to O gauge I've been very busy gaining experience building up some rolling stock from the various models available. In my previous life modelling OO I bought everything RTR so the idea of building and painting everything is quite new to me and, I'm realising, involves some research.

 

I've decided to model the LMS period, mid to late 1930s era. I like this period because it gives opportunity to include rolling stock from other regions, from earlier pre-grouping periods and with it, a variety of liveries. In addition I can capture some rolling stock in earlier LMS Grey livery and, as I understand it, a new livery policy came into effect around 1936 when 'fitted' vans and wagons got the LMS Bauxite livery.

 

So, to get to the point, I've bought several tins and aerosols in appropriate colours from the Precision Paints range. I've just painted my first van in 'P39 - LMS Bauxite' and I'm very surprised at how dark the colour is. It's almost like a deep chocolate colour and many shades darker that other models I've seen in Bauxite livery. I'm aware there were several changes to the bauxite paint at different times and that sometimes other shades of brown have been applied, but even so, this seems so dark it just looks wrong and I'm reluctant to paint any more. I'm actually quite tempted to lighten the shade a bit. I have of course thoroughly stirred the tin and done endless internet searches looking for a prototype!

 

I wondered if anyone here has knowledge of the early LMS bauxite colour and can confirm it was very dark, or if anyone else has sought to query Precision Paints' version of this livery. Any experiences to share would be appreciated.

 

Many thanks

Regards

Alan

[Barry Rhys]

 

I've decided to model the LMS period, mid to late 1930s era. I like this period because it gives opportunity to include rolling stock from other regions, from earlier pre-grouping periods and with it, a variety of liveries. In addition I can capture some rolling stock in earlier LMS Grey livery and, as I understand it, a new livery policy came into effect around 1936 when 'fitted' vans and wagons got the LMS Bauxite livery.

 

 

Hello Alan, just seen this by chance as I'm a 4mm type actually.

 

I'm afraid I can't help regarding the actual colour of the LMS Bauxite, I'm just as reliant on others getting it right and copying their work, be it historical descriptions, memories, paint charts or whatever. It's not much use knowing the LMS paint specification (quoted, for example, in 'The LMS Wagon' by Ken Morgan and Bob Essery), since it is a mixture spec defining quantities of materials - eg Bauxite Paint (Undercoat) comprises 8lb of Boiled Linseed Oil, 6-10lb of White Spirit, 2-4lb of Liquid Drier and 82lb of Bauxite Residue in Oil...

 

What I want to mention though relates to the use of the LMS Bauxite livery from May 1936. Bauxite livery was not restricted to fitted vans and wagons - it was applied equally to unfitted vans and wagons. I think the confusion arises (fairly frequently too, so don't feel bad about it!) due to the adoption by British Railways of (broadly speaking) grey for unfitted and bauxite for fitted wagons.

 

As you're most certainly aware, the change to the new livery in 1936 also included a major change in lettering and numbering layout. According to 'The LMS Wagon', however, at the time of the official change to bauxite in May 1936:

 

(quote) "some new construction, outshopped in the grey body colour, was lettered in the new style before bauxite became general for all bodywork. Even so some vehicles were relettered but not repainted, so that until after 1948 it was possible to see vehicles in a weathered grey body colour carrying the post-1936 lettering style. Some of these vehcles even had traces of the pre-May 1936 lettering still visible."

 

So in the late 1930's there may well be good reasons to have some grey wagons - fitted and unfitted - relettered with the post-1936 style on a layout, however this was not the specified livery at that time.

 

Although not relevant to your 1930's era, there was also a further livery change during the War. But let's not go there!

 

Hope this helps a fellow LMS modeller.

 

Neil

[Alan Kettlewell]

Hi Neil,

 

Thanks for the reply. Yes I had read about some stock being painted in the grey after the 1936 change of policy and I've modelled a few wagons and vans with the smaller lettering at the lower left side. I hadn't picked up on the fact about some unfitted and fitted stock being re-painted in the grey, so thanks for that, luckily then I don't think I've made any errors (yet).

 

We can get away with almost anything, within reason, with regards to painting and lettering as it seems there's some truth in the statement '..there's a prototype for everything.. '

 

I also like the idea of modelling a van where the previous lettering is faded but still just visible beneath new lettering, so I'll be doing a couple of them too.

 

Thanks again.

Regards

Alan

[coachmann]

Bare in mind how long it took the LMS to paint all its wagons in the new 1936 livery. A good many would not be touched anyway because they werent company wagons but belonged to private owners. The Bauxite paint you buy from Phoenix or Howes would be fine even though to unnacustomed eyes it looks 'dark'. I saw goods brake vans in LMS baxite in the 1950s. They were dark compared with BR 'fitted' paintjobs. They must have been quite confusing to goods guards at the time seeing as some were unfitted.

[hmrspaul]

 

 

 

What I want to mention though relates to the use of the LMS Bauxite livery from May 1936. Bauxite livery was not restricted to fitted vans and wagons - it was applied equally to unfitted vans and wagons. I think the confusion arises (fairly frequently too, so don't feel bad about it!) due to the adoption by British Railways of (broadly speaking) grey for unfitted and bauxite for fitted wagons.

 

Neil

 

Simply to confirm, BR minutes are clear that having the difference between fitted and unfitted wagons differentiated by colour was adopted from the LNER.

 

Paul Bartlett

[Alan Kettlewell]

Thanks for your replies gents and for your comment Coachmann confirming that the LMS bauxite was in fact darker than bauxite used at other times and elsewhere. Also comments are appreciated about fitted v unfitted vehicles and bauxite. One other thing has become more clear is that if a wagon was sent in to the paintshop for a repaint in bauxite then the LMS paintshop would have also applied the new numbering scheme ie smaller letters near the bottom left hand end. So it would be wrong to see a bauxite vehicle with the large LMS letters across the side.

 

Thanks again for all your comments.

 

Regards

Alan