BROADTRAIN1979 Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Hi i would like to buy one of these sound decoders, what quality are they against the lok micro v4? Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady_Ava_Hay Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Quality of what? In general terms, now the RTR dealers are getting there act together with the Loksound V4, it is a tough call as to which you pick. As has been said many times before sound is subjective and what is Mozart to one is pure white noise to another. At the same time it is a rare person who would buy both just to inform us of which in their opinion was the better of the two. Might I suggest that you venture onto YouTube or into a supplying dealer to buy the one that suits you best. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROADTRAIN1979 Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 Quality of what? In general terms, now the RTR dealers are getting there act together with the Loksound V4, it is a tough call as to which you pick. As has been said many times before sound is subjective and what is Mozart to one is pure white noise to another. At the same time it is a rare person who would buy both just to inform us of which in their opinion was the better of the two. Might I suggest that you venture onto YouTube or into a supplying dealer to buy the one that suits you best. Ok, i asked the question as it is possible modelllers do have both?I already have 3 loksound micro v4s for my emu's /dmu . As the v4s are a bit big to fit a farish 'n' 37/47 the latest zimo mx 648f is ideal to fit straight in with the sugar cube speaker . i have been on youtube and seen it in action yesterday .So to my ears these. sound superb As i did not think i was going to recieve a reply, decided to search for myself.... so that answers the question . many thanks Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 My opinion of the Zimo; motor control excellent, sound reproduction is a mixed bag. The audio output is fine, but the control is mixed: Steam sound control is excellent, I can build drivable steam locos, with variable exhaust bark (loaded/unloaded trains), regulator shut for coasting or regulator open at constant speed, etc.. And lots of "fine tuning" possibilities of a loco on a layout with commands from a normal throttle, so, with a bit of pre-planning in the sound project, its not necessary to reload sounds with Zimo's programmer hardware in order to fine-tune what is heard. BUT I find the sound software control for diesels in Zimo is poor. With normal throttle control, the diesel engine note will rev-up after the loco has reached its new speed (rather than diesel rev's up, generates more electricity, which is fed to traction motors which then accelerate the train). There is a work-around with Paul Chetter's psuedo-manual drive, available on some projects sold by Digitrains. Some people like this intensive function key pressing method of driving locos, others do not. There may be other "hack" methods which could improve things, but as I see things, Zimo have a flaw in their current architecture for sound reproduction of diesel-electric locos. In contrast, most ESU diesel projects behave correctly in this area and will rev-up first and then accelerate the locomotive. I don't know enough about electric prototype noises to be able to comment on the Zimo software for electrics. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROADTRAIN1979 Posted December 31, 2011 Author Share Posted December 31, 2011 Ok thanks . Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted December 31, 2011 Share Posted December 31, 2011 Ok thanks . Mark. The Zimo MX648 is a great little (No, tiny!) decoder. It is considerably smaller than the Lok micro and easilly fits in 'N' gauge. It is fully featured with 6 function outputs. I have fitted them to Hornby Magazine's J94 'OO' layout loco (debuted at Spalding Show) and it sounds great. Lots of positive comments from the public. I have fitted them to Bachmann Class 03, without carving up the body or putting speaker or decoder in the cab. My driver's head is still intact and the cab light still functions. I used the sugar cube speaker you refered to, and whilst not Hi Fi it it prtty good and you can get them in small spaces The superiority of Lok driving scheme (which can be very good, I agree) is advanced often as a reason to pass on Zimo, but if you can't get a Lok in at all or only by butchering the model, it's a bit hollow. As Nigel has said, I have indeed provided a work-around, and Ihave never claimed it will suit everyone, but everyone I know who has tried it is very satisfied. Yes, it's a bit more work, but enables complete separation from motor speed or throttle. It enables your locos to 'thrash' even on small shunting planks if that's what you want. The important advantage often overlooked by critics is that you do not have to load on rediculous amounts of inertia to get sound and movement to correspond. Again, highly desirable in shunting ops. You control the sound so you can hear what you wish, not just what the sound author thinks you should want. Here's the sort of control possible. This is a Class 37 since you mentioned that specific loco type and the sound file can be preloaded by Digitrains on any scale Zimo decoder. The J94 project will appear in (I think) next month's Hornby Magazine. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROADTRAIN1979 Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 I think these are great and knowing they fit into 'n' diesels has been a long time coming well done zimo also digitrains sounds are superb i will be calling on wednesday to buy an MX648F with their 37 sound on and sugar cube speaker ,i should think the decoder slides between the circuit board and speaker cab end?? decoders are £98 blown on sound obviously is extra? Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted January 1, 2012 Share Posted January 1, 2012 I think these are great and knowing they fit into 'n' diesels has been a long time coming well done zimo also digitrains sounds are superb i will be calling on wednesday to buy an MX648F with their 37 sound on and sugar cube speaker ,i should think the decoder slides between the circuit board and speaker cab end?? decoders are £98 blown on sound obviously is extra? Mark. Mark, If you buy via the internet, there is a nominal charge of 1p to add the sounds. This is actually as a consequence of their 'e-shop' software which does not allow listing for sale any items with zero cost. I suspect that if you are calling to collect, that will be waived. Ha ha! It takes about 20 minutes to load a decoder, so it would be easier to 'phone before you call and it can be ready for you. (On the other hand, you could spend much longer than that 'playing trains' on their layout). The class 37 project actually has 4 different sound sets that you can select from at any time, as often as you wish (just a simple CV change). They are 37/0 and 37/4, each having 'normal' driving and 'Manual Notching'. You should find something you like in that lot. You will find this feature different to anything you might have experienced with your Loksounds. Full user and driving instructions are supplied with the decoder. I don't think you will be disappointed. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROADTRAIN1979 Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 Mark, If you buy via the internet, there is a nominal charge of 1p to add the sounds. This is actually as a consequence of their 'e-shop' software which does not allow listing for sale any items with zero cost. I suspect that if you are calling to collect, that will be waived. Ha ha! It takes about 20 minutes to load a decoder, so it would be easier to 'phone before you call and it can be ready for you. (On the other hand, you could spend much longer than that 'playing trains' on their layout). The class 37 project actually has 4 different sound sets that you can select from at any time, as often as you wish (just a simple CV change). They are 37/0 and 37/4, each having 'normal' driving and 'Manual Notching'. You should find something you like in that lot. You will find this feature different to anything you might have experienced with your Loksounds. Full user and driving instructions are supplied with the decoder. I don't think you will be disappointed. Paul Cheers paul , i live too far to visit, so they will have to send it me,i may visit one day.Once received i will stick vid on. Looking forward to hearing it Regards Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROADTRAIN1979 Posted January 1, 2012 Author Share Posted January 1, 2012 Hi all, took the bull by the horns and ordered from digitrains 2 zimo mx648f's with two sound files 1 class 37 EE TYPE 1 class 47 sound file and 2 sugar cube ct electronik speakers not sure if i have to solder these or they do it doesnt matter looking forward to it. Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROADTRAIN1979 Posted January 5, 2012 Author Share Posted January 5, 2012 Hi recieved my two sound decoders and cube speakers today 37 and 47 from digitrains . Excited to say the least! not had them out yet as been busy today with electrics on street lamp wiring as well as laying paving for canonbury. Question for paul.... fitting these to the dcc ready locos? would you suggest each cab end? Many thanks. Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted January 7, 2012 Share Posted January 7, 2012 Hey Mark, Great news! If these are 'N' gauge locos, there's not much specific info I can give you. I install 'OO' and 'O' gauge, and I don't know these particular models. But I can give you a tip about the speaker. It works by exciting the resonator (the black (Zimo) or clear plastic (CT) box. They seem to work pretty well even in enclosed spaces. However, if you are really struggling for speaker space, you can cut off the very top of the resonator, shape the resulting 'walls' to fit snuggly into the inside of the loco body (I.e. arched top) and glue/seal in place. Important to have a complete seal. If you are lucky, the body and resonator will 'couple' to give a great sound and surprising volume considering the size of the speaker. The volume is set with CV266. The default value is 64, but you can usually put this up to around 100 if you like them to be really loud. (Max setting is actually 255, but distortion will set in at a lower figure than that, and as well as spoiling the sound quality it can permanently damage the speaker and decoder amplifier). Good luck. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROADTRAIN1979 Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hey Mark, Great news! If these are 'N' gauge locos, there's not much specific info I can give you. I install 'OO' and 'O' gauge, and I don't know these particular models. But I can give you a tip about the speaker. It works by exciting the resonator (the black (Zimo) or clear plastic (CT) box. They seem to work pretty well even in enclosed spaces. However, if you are really struggling for speaker space, you can cut off the very top of the resonator, shape the resulting 'walls' to fit snuggly into the inside of the loco body (I.e. arched top) and glue/seal in place. Important to have a complete seal. If you are lucky, the body and resonator will 'couple' to give a great sound and surprising volume considering the size of the speaker. The volume is set with CV266. The default value is 64, but you can usually put this up to around 100 if you like them to be really loud. (Max setting is actually 255, but distortion will set in at a lower figure than that, and as well as spoiling the sound quality it can permanently damage the speaker and decoder amplifier). Good luck. Paul Thanks Paul ,no these are 'n' so i will give these a go sunday. From what ive been told ,these fit 'n' gauge dcc ready farish diesels so i will report back when fitted looking forward to it!. Regards, Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROADTRAIN1979 Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hi Paul , strange sound comimg from speaker ??? the diesel sound 47 is excellent but its spoiled by this annoying phone like cut of tone in the back ground and when motor has closed down i still hear it? have i wired this speaker up right?? the two purple leads wired to speaker from decoder as the green brown and blue are for extra lighting connections. Many thanks Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROADTRAIN1979 Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hi, I will have to send these back to digitrains i shall call in the morning as they now only run the trains and sound is non sound also they are very hot and all im now getting is a distorted sound out of both speakers like the tweeters have gone and i had thes set at 40 volume?They diddnt sound right at the begining, with that constant phone cut off sound?? oh well £202.00 is all it cost so i will explain tomorrow to jeremy and get to replacements and yes my track voltage is fine as my other trains run perfectly with sound decoders fitted.Ithink these are faulty and i was unlucky. sad Mark.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted January 8, 2012 Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hi, I will have to send these back to digitrains i shall call in the morning as they now only run the trains and sound is non sound also they are very hot and all im now getting is a distorted sound out of both speakers like the tweeters have gone and i had thes set at 40 volume?They diddnt sound right at the begining, with that constant phone cut off sound?? oh well £202.00 is all it cost so i will explain tomorrow to jeremy and get to replacements and yes my track voltage is fine as my other trains run perfectly with sound decoders fitted.Ithink these are faulty and i was unlucky. sad Mark.. Mark, How disappointing, Zimo are usually top class. I've been running a couple of these since September last year without problem, and that's in 'OO' gauge 0-6-0s. I also fitted one to Hornby Magazine's J94 for use on their 'OO' exhibition layout, and that is in use constantly for 5-6hours at a time without overheating problems. (Next outing is at Leamington) Jeremy will sort you out, I'm sure. Yes you have used the correct wires, purple. How did you physically connect the wires to the speaker? I note from a remark on another thread that you were thinking of using the smaller Zimo speakers. I have tried these, but, in my opinion, if you can fit the larger (CT or Zimo) size in, then you will get better sound, and particularly more volume. The smaller, Zimo only, speaker is good for its size, but its sole advantage is that it will fit in very small spaces. Some sound is better than non, but the ones you already have are better all round. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROADTRAIN1979 Posted January 8, 2012 Author Share Posted January 8, 2012 Hi paul im absolutely gutted!!! as when i heard these, they almost blew me away!! fantastic!! then i had the grief! i will phone jeremy tomorrow and explain. I soldered the purple wires to the solder luggs of the speakers . The thing that gets me ,is they still run the locos but no sound guess the amp is blown but.... on two???? voltage of track is fine between 13 /16 max and my other locos run superbly and im using the powercab? sad regards Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted January 9, 2012 Share Posted January 9, 2012 Hi paul im absolutely gutted!!! as when i heard these, they almost blew me away!! fantastic!! then i had the grief! i will phone jeremy tomorrow and explain. I soldered the purple wires to the solder luggs of the speakers . The thing that gets me ,is they still run the locos but no sound guess the amp is blown but.... on two???? voltage of track is fine between 13 /16 max and my other locos run superbly and im using the powercab? sad regards Mark. Mark, First off, I am glad you were happy with the sound project before you lost sound. I really sympathise with your predicament. All sound decoders are expensive items, yet they are very vulnerable to catastrophic damage if not handled correctly. (That is a generalised statement, I'm not suggesting that is what has happened in this case, or that you have been reckless or negligent in any way). Strictly speaking, there aren't any solder pads on these speakers. They have two metal 'spring clips' each of which you depress, push in the bared end of a speaker wire which is then retained when you release the spring 'lever'. This ensures that no heat damages the speaker's internal connections, or any accidental 'bridging' with solder to the (metal) back-plate of the speaker. It is possible to solder to them, in fact that's what I normally do, but you have to be confident that you can solder without causing heat damage or create a path for 'shorting'. If there is a dead short across the speaker leads, it will almost certainly blow the amplifier. This will happen with any sound decoder, not just this model or manufacturer. In these circumstances, the chances are that the manufacturer will say that you have mishandled the product, or damaged it by misuse. It's possible that this will not be covered by warranty (or sale of goods act). You would need to prove that it/they were faulty when delivered. If sound projects have been pre-loaded, then the retailer (Digitrains in this instance) will have tested the decoder individually as part of the sound loading. It's unlikely a faulty unit would be dispatched, I would think. If you are sure you have not caused the problem, I suggest you send everything back to Digitrains for testing. (Or have the testing done independently before sending back). You only used these yesterday, so everything should be to hand and you can demonstrate that it was not your fault. It's a real shame you have had this problem; in my experience it's not indicative of the usual quality of Zimo hardware, but I suppose we can all have an off-day. Coincidently, I bought one of these MX648 decoders last Friday, so it will probably be from the same batch. I plan to install it this week. I'll post the result here in case there is evidence of a faulty batch. Kind regards, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROADTRAIN1979 Posted January 9, 2012 Author Share Posted January 9, 2012 Paul, .I called jeremy today and explained he said to send them back with a covering letter and he will replace them for me. kind & happier regards. Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rammstein2609 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Hi guys, Just found this topic. I'm thinking of ordering one of these chips for a Farish 57 but wonder if it is possible to fit 2 speakers to the decoder or is the sound from one speaker loud enough? Cheers Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BROADTRAIN1979 Posted January 20, 2012 Author Share Posted January 20, 2012 Hi guys, Just found this topic. I'm thinking of ordering one of these chips for a Farish 57 but wonder if it is possible to fit 2 speakers to the decoder or is the sound from one speaker loud enough? Cheers Martin Hi Martin. Go for the ct electronic cube speaker or tiny zimo cube speaker i have the ct cubes and must say the sounds are fantastic for such a small speaker, Look on digitrains website.and the decoder is zimo MX648F For farish locos. hope this helps Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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