ianwales Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Hi all I know that during my time on BR in the 1980's there were sometimes Shark Ballast Brakes in the middle of a formation of ballast wagons, but, by this time the guards would be riding in the back cab of the diesel locos, however, for the period I want to model i;e late 50's early 60's, would the Shark be at the end of the rake in the place of a conventional Brake van or would there be an ordinary brake van at the end of the train in addition to the Shark? Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 There is a picture in one of the wagon books which shows a Shark and a conventional Brake Van together at the end of a train, that was in LMS days though and the GBV was an ex Caledonian one as made by K's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I think there have been several different ideas put forward in previous discussions about Sharks. Having the Shark in the middle of the ballast train might be as much to do with the Shark's short wheelbase and riding qualities as anything. Keeping the couplings under tension was probably one reason for it. Maybe staff didn't like riding in a Shark at speed, so another van was attached to the train to accommodate the guard. Maybe having the Shark in the centre assisted ploughing. So the ballast hoppers in front of the Shark would drop their ballast when the train was being pulled, then once it had been propelled back to the start point, the other hoppers would drop the ballast and the Shark would be shoved through it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 13, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2012 A Shark would be used as the brakevan on a ballast train working to site but traffic vans would be likely to be used to/from quarries (unless the Shark was required to move with the train to another District or site). Marshalling a ploughvan in the middle of a train is quite a sensible idea as it reduces derailment risk when working on site during ballast dropping. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 . Maybe staff didn't like riding in a Shark at speed, so another van was attached to the train to accommodate the guard. As per Mike's post really. A Shark has a pretty short wheelbase (either 9 or 10ft IIRC, certainly less than a late design 20T traffic brake), so will be neither as comfortable nor stable at (relatively) higher speeds. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixie Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 A Shark has a pretty short wheelbase (either 9 or 10ft IIRC, certainly less than a late design 20T traffic brake), so will be neither as comfortable nor stable at (relatively) higher speeds. I've got a tale involving a bottle of tequila, missing the last passenger train home and hitching a lift in a Shark brake van on a preserved line. Even at preservation speeds (20mph? 25mph?) it was a rough old ride so I can empathise. Pix Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 13, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 13, 2012 Also in steam days it was common for positioning moves during the week to have a second brake as well as the shark. This gave the guard somewhere to ride when the engine was returning home, otherwise he might be looking for a bus, depending on who the driver was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poor Old Bruce Posted January 14, 2012 Share Posted January 14, 2012 Having the Shark in the middle of the ballast train might be as much to do with the Shark's short wheelbase and riding qualities as anything. Keeping the couplings under tension was probably one reason for it. Nice adea but it doesnt work like that. In the early to mid 1990s there was a spate of derailments of Sharks in the middle of trains en route to quarries mid week for filling. The Sharks managed to find the odd track defect and took off. One was at a double 'wet spot' in otherwise very good track, the first dip was enough to derail it. Eventually the Sharks were left behind for the quarry trips. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted February 15, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 15, 2012 This recent thread may have the reason in post #3. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/52067-seacow-dogfishor-both/page__fromsearch__1 The old LMS 'Oyster' spawned the BR 'Shark' I believe. Oysters were classed ZUP in TOPS, so being through vacuum piped only could not be at the back of a fully fitted train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 The photo page 88 in Dave Larkins new Civil Engineers wagons book shows a block train of CATFISH with conventional brake vans at either end, hauled by a class 40 which is then propelling a working SHARK. None of the Catfish are discharged, so presumably the ballast has been dropped by a preceding train. A busy scene from the late Green livery era. Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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