Northmoor Works - Rolling stock for Stockrington: Southern Pride TCVs

[jukebox]

Ah just my ignorance they looked plastic eee to me. It would make sense though, people would not want to buy something then replace something fundamental to running them.

I shall slope off....But at least I am learning  ...probably to lurk in the back ground LOL

 

It's okay Jaz - you can blame it on my poor photography!  I've been waxing lyrical about all the detail on the plastic bits, but not lighting the shots so you can see whats under 'em.   I'm just grateful the kits come with decent wheels to begin with - otherwise Kit + Wheels + Paint + Decals + effort > RTR wagon price...

 

 

Parkside offer to exchange the Romford wheels for keen maygib ones (OO, EM or P4) for a small supplement.

Also I've found that Gibson wheels don't like set track points. Dunsters fiddle yard has set track points, a money saving exercise which hasn't worked out.

 

Hmmm.  I've got some Gibson wheels on wagons that have run on Peco Code 75 curved points laid on a gradient and they were happy...  one of the big upheavals if Stockrington restarts may be to expel all the Shinohara turnouts - I have not spent a lot of time try to find out why, but can see a number of items of stock (both locos and wagons) do not like the check rail clearances at the frog on these... so I am probably going to invetigate the coachman route of Peco Code 83 express turnouts, for ease of replacement, and performance.  But that is a whole other chapter.

 

Got the PM Shaun - thanks!  Because you went to the trouble, I'll have a crack at one of those grain van kits next!

 

Scott

[jukebox]

So... just to prove that I'm (very) human, here's last night's stuff up.

 

When I was in the closing throws of the evening's work, I used the liquid cement to bond the floor to the wagon sides.  But I was rushing, and feeling over confident, and applied too much cement to one of the joins. I was holding the wagon, inverted, and introducing the cement from underneath... and felt the cool rush on my fingertips.

 

It wasn't a lot, but it doesn't take much, and the solvent quickly moulded my fingeprint to the wagon side in two places.

 

 

 

There wasn't a lot I could do at the time, so I just put the assembly down and let it all harden.

 

This morning, I took my fibreglass brush, that I usually use to burnish brass when soldering a metal kit.  I extended the bristles to about 10mm, so they were not particularly abrasive, and worked away at the affected areas, polishing down the planking till I couldn't see any sign of damage.

 

 

It's hard to see, even under the magnifier, so i think I have got the worst of it. The planks there now look a little more smooth than the rest of the wagon side, but I'm confident that it will be inconspicuous under paint and with the distraction of decals.

 

It wouldn't have happened, if:

 

a) I hadn't rushed

b) I had been more careful about how much cement I was loading the brush with

c) If the wagon body was sat on a block, not in my hands, while I added more liquid cement

d) All of the above

 

My advice?  Make your own mistakes, people: don't copy mine!

 

***

 

The other work I completed last night was dressing the solebars; these had the W irons and V hangers glued in place.  There are slots on the solebars to fit these parts, so it isn't hard - but it is an area you need to get right, otherwise you'll end up with axles that are not parallel, or wheels that don't sit flat on the rails.

 

 

I'm assuming it was done that way so PD could increase the depth (and fidelity) of the running gear details.  It does add an extra step, but there's no more skill involved, so I wouldn't deduct marks from them for this choice.

[jukebox]

From there forwards, it was about an hour's work to attach the solebars, then the brake rigging, handles and door spring. The shanks for the buffers needed reaming out (easier than trying to thin the shafts on the buffer heads, IMHO), and the door hinge had to be trimmed up before gluing inside the body.

 

One heads up I did forget to document for this kit was that the notch on one of the ends for one of the sides had a sugar grained size lump in it that stopped the side sitting flush in the correct spot. A swipe with the file sorted it, but I make the point that a dry run showed this up - better to find that out then, than when it's all gummed up with MEK.

 

And so this is what the end result looks like:

 

 

 

 

Before I paint this one, I will run some wet and dry over the top planks, to remove the last of the "fur" from where I cut the sprue feeds away.

 

Okay, so I flagged my bias before I started, but this kit did nothing to change my mind: I love making Parkside Dundas kits, and can recommend this one unconditionally, if you want to have a go at building a piece of rolling stock yourself.

 

Now about that Grain Hopper...

[jukebox]

So now is where the journey gets interesting.

 

Shaun (Sasquatch) has already PM'd me with some advice/warnings about this kit, and so I'm a little wary of it:

 

 

This isn't a current red header card release of PC13, but a much earlier run, with a pink paper header, and single spaced, type-written instructions. The last time I saw something this agricultural was when I won an ABS L1 kit on eBay.

 

So while current PD offerings have wheels and bearing supplied, this one does not.  I'll need to ferret around my parts to see what I have; I can always swap the wheels out later if I don't have the correct ones, but I can't install the bearings post-assembly, so I need to find four/eight before I proceed.

 

There's a lot of flash around many of the parts, the floor is on two pieces, and while it's sharp and there is plenty of detail, there is a lot of clean up to do.  Even if it fits toegther like a dream, this kit is a long way from the shake-and-bake of the last four.

 

Luckily, I have the Tatlow LNER Wagon volume referenced in the instructions, so will take a close look at that, to see how the kit details compare to the real McCoy.

Edited May 29, 2014 by jukebox

[Sasquatch]

Scott..........
Start by making a new floor!
There's a lot of detailing that can be done if you choose. You could make bigger steps from .010x.030 micro strip, drill and file out the inspection windows in the ends and add clear glazing. The roof looks better if .015x.020 is added to the ends and .015x .015 to the sides.
Fine wire is supplied with the latter kits to make the hand rails, one each end.  
The sole bars are too short and the hand wheels are fragile! 
These vans could be found with 3 hole disc or spoked wheel sets.
A fair amount of patients is required, I have built 4 the first of which wobbles as the wheel sets are not level with each other due to the floor. The last one still isn't complete as time awaits the right relaxed mood!!!

Here's a pic which shows the improvements, left is still under construction and shows up how the roof looks much better with a little extra length. Right has hand rails and windows, built about 15 years ago! (Chloee and Meisha aren't usually this cooperative with their portraits).

[jukebox]

Some good tips there, Shaun - thank you.  Definitely will drill out the windows, and extend the roof.  The handrail should not be too hard to bend up, too.  I see the floor is in two parts, but wasn't quite sure what problem that creates;  Confession: I started to build two of these (and a half dozen or so other PD kits) about a decade ago when I was working away, and took a small kit tool box to site with me, but I never finished them - and cant remember the floor being a pain. But that was a long time ago...

 

In searching for some bearings, I found "the box" where my beginner efforts were...  however, I didn't find any bearings, so have ordered 150 from the UK (cheaper to do that, than buy 50 from the East coast of Oz and get them shipped West, would you believe!)  But I did fit bearings to the sideframes on those two I part built, so have two sets of side frames I can use, to keep going until the new shipment arrives from the UK in about 10 days.

 

In my ferreting around I also discovered...

 

 

Oh, and there was an Airfix cement wagon in there, too.

 

All of which amused me no end - three more brands to test build!

 

These don't have metal wheels or bearings, though (although the Peco plastic wheels are rather nicely moulded, I must admit), so I can only progress part way with both of these.

 

So, I'll ruminate over whether to part build these, attempt the grain wagon, or break out a couple of the remaining new PD's I have, to bide my time over the next week.

 

Watch this space, as they say!

[jukebox]

Opening the Peco box, I feel like I've entered a time warp...

 

 

Small parts in sealed, wax paper envelopes, all wrapped in tissue... cellotape that has yellowed with time.... a packing slip initialled by "RP".  I wonder if he's still alive?

[Sasquatch]

Didn't seem to have any luck with the two part floor by way of leveling the axels with each other!

Am interested to see how you get on with the Peco wagon as I've never built one.

What's in the Keyser box, sometimes those older kits can be interesting. There's a Kirk North British brake van waiting for a nice rainy day in my kits box. They're so rare now I'm frightened to touch it!

 

Regards Shaun.

Am enjoying this thread immensely BTW Scott.  

[jukebox]

Thanks for the encouragement Shaun - it's been really good for the morale to just hook into a few of these, and know that while the end result doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things if I muff one up, some nice models are coming out of it, and most importantly, it's been fun!

 

***

 

After getting into a bit of a groove with plactic kits, this Peco one definitely stalled the momentum!

 

I started by taking all the parts off the sprues.  The plastic parts are all moulded in a waxy, flexible plastic - nothing like the kit plastic from the other manufacturers.  It was easy to cut, but horrible to clean up - filing just made a fluffy edge, and the flash on the edges of some parts was gossamer thin, but flexible and resisitant to a knife cleaning it up...  No idea how it would take paint - but the waxiness would be a worry, I suspect.

 

Anyway, start by inserting buffers into buffer beams, and attaching the buffer beams and solebars to the metal wagon body. 

 

 

This is done by metling the lugs that poke through the body - almost like rivetting

 

 

The fit was actually very good; I broke out an old 25W soldering iron with a bady corroded tip, and just used that.  You can see I've done the top half of the wagon in the shot above.  After doing three of four stubs, I got used to how long to linger, and so got tidier at doing the task.  The smell was horrible, and I must say it went against every modelling instinct I had to melt plastic to make a join.  Having said that, the method had a curious similarity to soldering - once the part was melted in, you could keep going to the next step.  Unlike soldering, though, there is no chance to fix a mistake or have a redo if you arent happy...

[jukebox]

Next up was the running gear.

 

The design is interesting, and uses the flexibility of the plastic to make the wagon wheels indepdently "sprung"

 

Start by inserting bearing (supplied) into the axlebox units:

 

 

These are then clipped into metal "W" iron assemblies - there is a flangeway on them, such that they can slide up and down on the W iron, and the weight of the wagon rests on the spring.

 

 

The assemblies are then dropped into the underframe and the "legs" that poke through, folded over to hold them in place.  Initially I was cursing this, as when I fitted them, i could see they were fouling the action of piece of plastic on the buffer beam casting that creates the "sprung" buffers for the kit. But I perservered, and then the assembly "clicked" down, into the bottom of the wagon body, and all clearances were good.

 

 

It's all quite tidy and clever - no springs or piano wire to insert. It all clips neatly into place.

[jukebox]

From there, the wheels drop into place.  I kept the kit wheels - my reasoning being, for me, the printed sides are always going to be a barrier to this wagon being something I'd want under close scrutiny, so if it ever did make it to Stockrington, I'd be placing it quietly in a siding, as a "mood enhancer", rather than an active wagon.

 

The brake fittings are quite clever, designed for both 9ft and 10ft underframes - you simply cut off the ones not required:

 

 

These, too, have lugs that are melted down to secure them.

 

 

And with that, the assembly is done, and just the card wagon body remains.

 

 

The sides are printed in four parts - I used a liberal coat of varnish on both the metal body and the back of the vard to attach the dissimilar materials. 

 

The box/chain pocket requires some fiddly oragami - something I've never been much good at. 

 

A card floor embossed with planking completes the build.

 

 

And there it is, a Peco Wonderful Wagon:

 

 

It's okay for what it is, but my own prejudice means I can't take a cardboard sided kit too seriously.  It also looks to sit a little high.  But I'd assume it was quite a revelation in its day - sprung buffers, sprung wheels, brake blocks in line with wheel treads, and printed sides ~ so no messy painting.

 

If you have one in the cupboard, don't expect the last word in fidelity - just make it up for fun.

[jukebox]

Well there may be some who would argue I lost my bearings years ago.  But that being the case, the good news is, the postman has found them, and delivered them to my door.

 

 

A very big hat tip to Transport Models, of Preston (aka Kitlady, on eBay).  I know that auction site gets a bad rap on here sometimes, but the bottom line is that for modellers like me who cannot visit UK shows where traders are, even something as simple as brass bearings is rare as rocking horse manure in a city like Perth.  Or costs my left arm from the elbow down.

 

Now that I have my bearings, where did I leave my Mojo???  Oh, there it is!

 

 

Behave!

 

Scott

[Sasquatch]

Would have to agree about Kit Lady!

[jukebox]

Now, let's recap where we were!

 

Some years ago I bought a stash of Parkside Dundas kits for a seller here in Oz. I took a few of these up to build in my mine accomodation when I was doing Fly-In Fly-Out work over a decade ago...  and so have some poorly part built samples.

 

This time, I started with two un-opened LNER Grain Wagon kits:

 

 

These kits are quite old, but that has not helped make the parts any crisper - there is quite a lot of flash around these kit pieces, and I can even see a number of tiny circles that have formed in the grain on the wagon sides - possibly where the plastic was injected into the moulds?  Maybe not these are just 1mm or so, and not in any pattern, although they appear to be a defect on the tool itself, as they are repeated.  Anyway...

 

I cut off the main body parts, and cleaned up all the flash. A sharp knife is useful, so you can run it along the top of the mouldings, and remove the excess. I opened out the windows on the wagon ends, not seeing there were actually two on each end - so will need to revisit that.

 

The roofs in particualr need care - the feed spruse runs long the edge of one side, and if you cut oo much, you'll cut into the roof proper - not enough, and you are left with a bulging roof edge.  As Shaun mentioned, these roofs need extending with microstrip, so I will tackle each one when it is assigned to a specific wagon so I can make a "best fit".

 

 

From there, it's just a case of following instructions: glue an end to a side, and make half a wagon.  I used the planks as a guide, and made sure the planking lined up from the ends around to the sides.

 

I like to batch build, so here's the two wagons on the go:

 

 

About this time, I dug up the old wagons.  I hadnt done too bad a job on them, but had detatched the sideframes as they were too close othether and the axles did not run freely. I'd also PVA'd some lead shot in the bottom of the wagons.

 

 

It felt like these were too heavy.  It turned out I had 35g of shot in each wagon.  I dropped the bodies into a beaker of warm water, and left them for 24 hours, flushing after 12 hrs.  A day later, the glue had softened enough for me to easily scrape the shot out, so I was able to soak it longer and recover it (which is how I know how much I used).

 

While that was happening, I made up the floors, and then built the wagons sides up in pairs.  I realised after the fact I was very lucky I didnt mix the sides up - it would have been too easy to make a wagon with no doors, and another with a door on each side! 

 

The floors needed a little filing to fit inside the sides, but once in I was able to use liquid cement to bond them in place.

 

That has left me with four wagon bodies, now all in a similar state, ready to attach underframes to.

 

 

 

The fit isn;t too bad - there's one wagon (2nd from left in the line up above) where the end did not sit quite square at the bottom, so I will need to add a little filler to the gap in the corner.  But overall, they are coming up quite nicely - again, lots of bolt detail that begs for some dry brushing/weathering to bring to life in the paintshop.

[cheesysmith]

Would it have even easier to do the windows in the ends before building them? Or after the comment, did you forget and build them anyway?

[jukebox]

Would it have even easier to do the windows in the ends before building them? Or after the comment, did you forget and build them anyway?

 

Yes, the drilling out and filing would have been easier "in the flat" - but it wasn't until I had the sides assembled into a box, that I saw the other window - I'd been so focussed when I looked at the reference photos in Tatlow, I didn't see the far side.

 

It won't be too hard to remedy - to be honest, I'm not actually sure it's worth doing.  At normal viewing distances, the Dave Shakespeare dodge of a gloss black painted pane is probably just as accurate, and a lot less trouble.  I will probably just drill out the two I have started, and then I'll be able to find out the answer myself!

[jukebox]

RMWeb, you foul temptress!  How you inject guilt into my "that will be good enough" and make me do more!

 

So I was opening out the windows on the two new wagons last night... it proved fairly easy; I couldn't face hand drilling 20 or so holes with a pin vice, so I used a battery powered drill (one with variable speed, so I had lots of control - dont try it with a drill that gives you "on/off") and a 0.5mm bit, and drilled two holes diagonally opposite one another in each opening, then took a scalpel, opened out the holes to about 90% of the final window size. Then I took a small square file and finished the holes off, as neatly as I could.

 

And looked over at the two prebuilt wagons that I was going to leave as-is... and gave in, and drilled them out, too.

 

 

It took about an hour, and so was worth the effort.

 

The payoff was 10 mins ago when I photographed them; now I can see there's a bit of bowing in the sides on some of the wagons.  I'll cure that by measuring the ends, and fitting some plasticard bracing inside, to push/pull/lock the sides in place closer to where they need to be.

 

Also noted: I saw a couple of these kits in eBay yesterday - the new release has a one piece floor. still has its floor in two parts.

 

Cheers

 

Scott

Edited June 17, 2014 by jukebox

[45568]

Hi Scott,

                I received one of these direct from Parkside 5 day ago, the floor is still in two pieces!!!

Cheers,

Peter C.

[jukebox]

Hi Peter - you are absoloutely right.  I went back and looked at the image I saw, and it's actually the back of the two sides I thought were a one piece floor (that the pack shouldn't have had two floors in it didn't register!)

 

 

I'll correct my post to reflect the current reality.

 

BTW - that auction is sitting at GBP3:50 for both kits... if I were a sucker for punishment, I'd snipe that, so I could have a six wagon train!

 

Scott

[45568]

You win 'em  I'll take one off you, but we'll go halves on the transfers/decals!!!

Cheers'

Peter. C

[Sasquatch]

The first two I built have a serious wobble due to the two part floor. They both sit in the repair drawer awaiting to be rebuilt!

I think it's about time Parkside updated this kit along with the LNER toad B. That was their best kit due to its kit bashing potential!!

[jukebox]

You win 'em  I'll take one off you, but we'll go halves on the transfers/decals!!!

Cheers'

Peter. C

 

 

I can *probably* help you out with decals, Peter - I seem to have accrued a good stash of HMRS LNER wagon decals from whenever I've seen them going cheap on eBay...  so if I have more than eight "Grain" wordings, am happy to share with you.  Let me know and I'll check.

 

 

 

The first two I built have a serious wobble due to the two part floor. They both sit in the repair drawer awaiting to be rebuilt!

I think it's about time Parkside updated this kit along with the LNER toad B. That was their best kit due to its kit bashing potential!!

 

I'll keep a close eye on it it Shaun - I will not batch build the underframe; as I need to get the solebar spacing sorted out (that was my downfall the first time) - I'll document what I do with the first one here in the next few days, and then if that works, batch produce the other three.

 

Scott

Edited June 17, 2014 by jukebox

[jukebox]

And right about now is where things get a little ugly.

 

Here's the four bodies - you can see where I was able to lever off the old underfames, and see the spacer ribs on the new ones.  As I know they are a bit too tight, I will use some shims and open out the spacing on the solebars...

 

 

So this is what the underframe mouldings look like off the sprue:

 

 

That's about the worst I've ever seen in a PD kit - loads of flash, seam lines on the top of the solebar (where it needs to sit flat against the underside of the wagon floor), and they are badly bowed.

 

It took aboout a half hour of careful clean up to get one pair looking right - at least the plastic PD use is brittle, and was able to be shaved and sanded.

 

This is what I ended up with:

 

 

The instructions call for one Vee hanger on each side to be cut off; once done. you can sand the bottom of the solebar smooth; After you do that, I recommend sandinghe top of the solebar smooth - so that you get a good bonding area for your adhesive of choice.

 

I drilled the holes for the bearings out a touch more - I did not want a repeat of the axle clearance issues - approx 0.5mm more, using a 0.5mm drill.  This time I did use the pin chuck - nothing to be gained by drilling out the visible side of the axlebox.

 

Here' s the view with the two solebars attached, and you can see the bowing - I have only glued above the axleboxes/W hangers - the plan is to let them dry hard, then pin the ends of the solebars and glue them so they are less bowed.

 

 

I will rescue the old solebars and reglue them to the first two bodies - the V hangers are damaged and I'm not happy with the way the brake rigging is attached - so will cut off and recover as much as I can, but will need to make up some new details using styrene strip and wire.

 

Scott

[Jaz]

Hey Scott

So glad to see you have got some mojo working......Behave.........

Plus you going through this type of work with Sasquatch et al input will make this well worth revisiting in the future.

Great reference.

Thanks guys.

 

and as you say even the cardboard ones have some interest. It good to see how things have or have not moved on in the kit bashing area. May even encourage me/us to have a go. Not anytime soon...though still got loads of piccies to post, and lots of work to finish on the re vamp.

[Jaz]

sorry to be a pain i'm struggling to find the link to the video you made...can you pop it up here so i can go have a look.