Super D Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I have been given 6 Hornby 20t wagons - Bolsover and Stephenson Clark (SC). When were these type of wagons in service? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Not sure that the Bolsover ones ever were, but the Stephenson-Clark ones would have been from 1930 or so onwards. The wagon is, I believe, based on a design that was built by the Great Western during the pre-war period, under the auspices of Sir Felix Pole; the idea was that they would be leased or hired by collieries to transport coal more efficently than the 10/12t wagons then universal. Stephenson-Clark, who were big coal factors, had interests on GWR territory, but Bolsover (based in Derbyshire) were on LMS territory. Examples lasted until the early 1970s, by then carrying grey'n'rust finish and a Pxxxxx number. Stephenson-Clarke had been colliery owners, but sold this side of the business to Powell Duffryn in 1928. However, their coal-factoring business was massive, with both a huge railway fleet (10000 or so wagons) and a fleet of colliers; amongst others, they supplied the Southern Railway with loco coal and the Gas Light and Coke Company with gas-coal. The company still exists, these days running a fleet of small and medium bulk carriers- their shipping interests date back to 1730. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Porco Rosso Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 I have been given 6 Horny 20t wagons priceless! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Iceman Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Yes FC is correct they are of GWR N32 design (over 2000 made) BR made the GWR N34 (no end door). The older Bolsover 10T & 12T 7 plank wagons had been made by made mostly by Ince Waggon & Ironworks Co Ltd. and a number by Chorley Wagon Works.These wagons being registered to both GCR & MR. Bolsover Colliery Co Ltd had a substantial number of coal wagons due to having 6 collieries, Clipstone, Rufford, Thornseby & Mansfield in the Mansfield area and Bolsover & Creswell near Chesterfield. They churned out over 2,740,000 tons of manufacturing, steam & house coal in 1924 and 5,623,00 tons in 1936. BOLSOVER was one of the first companies to have an arc legend (name) on its wagons .....NOTE...... if modelling early years although the name is usualy seen with black shade to the lettering some of the older stock was plane white lettering. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Shown are two officials of the wagons mentioned above. 6390 Bolsover RCH 20t all steel single side door with end doors at both ends, lettered Thoresby L&NERly which suggests LNER registration. S+C 26143 shows as per the Hornby model twin side doors and single end door. There is also a plate H3394 next to the registration plate showing it is on hire purchase. There was at least one wagon with part of an H plate on in the Manvers Main internal user fleet when it closed. Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Thanks for publishing those two photos, Mark; the first one begs to be hacked out of a couple of Hornby or Dapol bodies. Were the end doors pressed or fabricated? I saw one or two 21 tonners with doors at both ends on trains to Carmarthen Bay Power Station, back at the beginning of the 1970s- I wonder if they were this type or one of the ex-GWR type? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Iceman Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 The cut and shut on Dapol bodies (now available at £1.25 each from Dapol) http://www.Dapol.co....=5&limitstart=5 There are several varients see below including a one of the Coke varient as P series after nationalisation. Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Not forgetting the CEGB varients on Paul Bartletts site! http://paulbartlett....com/cegbtippler The GR Turner ones are the same as Airfix/Dapol/Hornby but without doors and the Met Camm ones are almost the same as the BR rivetted (Parkside) one again without Doors but with different side stanchions spacing! LMS loco Coal found and added Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Thanks for publishing those two photos, Mark; And from me Mark The variations on these wagons fair fascinate me, I've always liked the coke variant. I saw one or two 21 tonners with doors at both ends on trains to Carmarthen Bay Power Station, back at the beginning of the 1970s- I wonder if they were this type or one of the ex-GWR type? Interesting - the usual info is that these went in the early 60s, but as ever with mineral wagons, there is tantalising evidence otherwise. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Iceman Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Quote I saw one or two 21 tonners with doors at both ends on trains to Carmarthen Bay Power Station, back at the beginning of the 1970s- I wonder if they were this type or one of the ex-GWR type? Quote Interesting - the usual info is that these went in the early 60s, but as ever with mineral wagons, there is tantalising evidence otherwise some variants did enter private/internal use after withdrawing from mainline service. A lot that went for scrap ended up being used by the crappers internaly in the yards and also by power stations for movement of waste and suplies within there own systems......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Thanks for the latest photos- I've never seen the 'coke' variant before. The LMS loco coal wagons I've seen in later photos (and in the 'flesh') had flat section welded to the uprights on either side of the door, presumably for use in those coaling towers that the LMS were so fond of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 some variants did enter private/internal use after withdrawing from mainline service. ...... I appreciate that Iceman, but to me, Brian's post suggests mainline usage. Perhaps he'll be good enough to confirm? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 I appreciate that Iceman, but to me, Brian's post suggests mainline usage. Perhaps he'll be good enough to confirm? Certainly was main-line use; coal from near Gorseinon (Brynlliw pit) to Carmarthen Bay. The majority of the wagons were standard 21t and 24½t minerals, but there were also ex PO, GW, LMS and LNER 21 tonners; one of the later was relatively freshly painted and carried 'LOCO' on a black rectangle between the doors. The period would be about 1970 to 1973; I only wish I'd noted more details, but some of the oddities stuck in my memory nevertheless. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Cheers Brian, that's cleared that up then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted February 12, 2012 Share Posted February 12, 2012 Certainly was main-line use; coal from near Gorseinon (Brynlliw pit) to Carmarthen Bay. The majority of the wagons were standard 21t and 24½t minerals, but there were also ex PO, GW, LMS and LNER 21 tonners; one of the later was relatively freshly painted and carried 'LOCO' on a black rectangle between the doors. The period would be about 1970 to 1973; I only wish I'd noted more details, but some of the oddities stuck in my memory nevertheless. Sorry going a bit OT - I've not scanned the odd one I have of the "Hornby - GWR Felix Pole" type. Nice LNER one in S. Wales http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lnermineral/e1b0896be But rather later http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnermineral/h1b0896be#h3c12e45 http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnermineral/h1b0896be#h28f3836 And this is a later one http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/p881862602/e11cd9dd7 of the GWR 2 door minerals, and far from Wales, where they did hang on. LMS 2 doors here http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsmineral/h3b8d4141#h3b8d4141 and http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsmineral/h3b8d4141#h36f7de11 Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 There is also the Low Height aggregate version, which would be nice to see in model form! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I wonder how long they lasted, Mark? I like the name- in my home town in Carmarthenshire, 'lant' was colloquial Welsh for stale urine, which used to be collected from pubs for use in the tinplate industry. No, I'm not taking the p**s, burt someone used to... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I wonder how long they lasted, Mark? I like the name- in my home town in Carmarthenshire, 'lant' was colloquial Welsh for stale urine, which used to be collected from pubs for use in the tinplate industry. No, I'm not taking the p**s, burt someone used to... The collection and use of "urine" was a major raw material in the early British Chemical industry! These wagons survived the War to become P's with the Trinadad Lake Asphalt ones becoming M360xxx wagons after they were purchased by BR from the owners as they were "Non Pool" . Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I have now added just a few of the ex Private Trader steel 2 door mineral wagons to my site at http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brpomineral Paul Bartlett Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Iceman Posted February 18, 2012 Share Posted February 18, 2012 myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gansg/4-rstock/04arstock5.htm have a look here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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