Which year was the Golden Age of Steam?

[Old Gringo]

As Bill says in post 24, an age is usually more than one year and so for a "Golden age of steam", I'd have to agree with all those who plump for the years prior to the Great War of 1914-18. So to pick an age or era, it would have to be the "Edwardian age" - probably one of the shortest periods you can hang an "age" tag on.

 

However, the OP asks for a year (of the zenith of steam), and that's still going to be 1938. Although bigger engines were built after that year and some improvements were made to efficiency, etc,.the steam engine was then at the absolute pinnacle of its power and influence, never to be repeated.

[GC Jack]

Has to be the Edwardian era for me.

 

Elegance and superb engineering combined in one.

 

Jack

[AndyB]

I was interested to read a letter in BRM from John de Frayssinet who touches on the kind of issue I was thinking of in my OP.

 

John's layout, "Country Gate", apparently features realistic graffiti "Vote Moseley" which has attracted over 20 angry complaints.

 

Recognising that most layouts are built for our own pleasure, John poses the question as to whether we should, therefore, filter out reality.

 

I should say that (less controversially) my 1970s layout has "George Davies is innocent. OK."

 

Whilst understanding the feelings of those that have voiced their concerns about John's level of realism it begs the question as to whether we are sometimes guilty of modelling in a cocoon?

 

On a lighter note for those that are plumping for the mid 50s I'm reminded of a certain film that must surely have done much to generate nostalgia for this point in history. Which film? Titfield Thunderbolt! Maybe time to build that time machine and sup a pint with Mr Valentine!

 

Andy

[10800]

I was interested to read a letter in BRM from John de Frayssinet who touches on the kind of issue I was thinking of in my OP.

 

John's layout, "Country Gate", apparently features realistic graffiti "Vote Moseley" which has attracted over 20 angry complaints.

 

Recognising that most layouts are built for our own pleasure, John poses the question as to whether we should, therefore, filter out reality.

 

No, but there are ways and means. Inclusion of 'Vote Moseley' will have been a conscious proactive decision, knowing that it would be controversial for some people. How hard would it have been to have different, possibly less inflammatory graffiti? 'Filtering out reality'? Hardly.

[coachmann]

People were entitled to vote extreme right just as they voted extreme left. Afterall, if one is modelling 1979 they will surely need roadside posters proclaiming "Labour isnt working...." Will someone complain about that in 50 years time?

[buffalo]

It's not clear to me how John de Frayssinet can talk about "filtering out reality" when his model is of an imaginary section of of a real prototype. As Rod says above, the "Vote Moseley" graffito would have been a conscious decision to add something contemporary, but it is something that could have existed anywhere even if to many, both at the time and today, is potentially offensive. For comparison, how might folk react if I were to model Radstock in the early 1950s and show the ex L&Y pug 51202 with "Vote Labour" written in chalk across the back of the cab? In case anyone wonders, it would be prototypically correct as there is an Ivo Peters photo (plate 54 in An English Cross-Country Railway).

 

Nick

[RJS1977]

People were entitled to vote extreme right just as they voted extreme left. Afterall, if one is modelling 1979 they will surely need roadside posters proclaiming "Labour isnt working...." Will someone complain about that in 50 years time?

 

That's already appeared on "Stoney Lane Depot".

[AndyB]

As Ben Elton once (or twice) said - "little bit of politics" creeping in here. Let's be mindful of house rules.

 

One link that I found very interesting is on the Pendon museum site http://www.pendonmuseum.com/about/vale.php where you can launch a video discussing the rural traditions. Very informative.

[RJS1977]

I was interested to read a letter in BRM from John de Frayssinet who touches on the kind of issue I was thinking of in my OP.

 

John's layout, "Country Gate", apparently features realistic graffiti "Vote Moseley" which has attracted over 20 angry complaints.

 

 

First time I saw it I thought it was a reference to the FIA!

[Tim Hale]

I was interested to read a letter in BRM from John de Frayssinet who touches on the kind of issue I was thinking of in my OP.

 

John's layout, "Country Gate", apparently features realistic graffiti "Vote Moseley" which has attracted over 20 angry complaints.

 

Andy

 

Am I correct in thinking that the same person was involved in creating a Nazi extermination camp scene for a private commission?

 

Tim

[t-b-g]

Am I correct in thinking that the same person was involved in creating a Nazi extermination camp scene for a private commission?

 

Tim

 

Having spent a few minutes in John's company at Doncaster show, he happened to mention the concentration camp scene, which was, from what I understand, built for a museum. It is therefore not likely to represent his own political views.

 

I would say that he comes across as the sort of person who may by capable of the noble art of deliberately stirring things up a bit for sheer devilment! His sense of humour takes some adjusting to but it is worth the effort!

 

Back on topic, I cannot think of anything finer than what is seen in the photographs of William Bradshaw, of GCR (and other) locos at Leicester immediately prior to the WW1. Jersey Lilies, gorgeous 4-4-0s, even a Dean single shows up. It was a time when engineering and artistry were in perfect step with each other.

 

1938 would come a close second. My father in law is not a railway enthusiast but he recalls the silver streamliners of the LNER and how much of an impression they made on him as a young boy.

[Andy Y]

I would say that he comes across as the sort of person who may by capable of the noble art of deliberately stirring things up a bit for sheer devilment!

 

I would offer a more strident position than that but let's not let character assassinations get in the way of an interesting topic.

 

*Not meaning that you were carrying out any such assassination Tony, just that I would find all too easy to do just that.

[Tim Hale]

For what little I understand of locomotive development, the introduction of the long travel piston valve, the incomparable Swindon boiler and superheating must be part of the 'Golden Age of Steam'

 

Tim

[D605Eagle]

The Edwardian era. A huge variety of locos and rolling stock in so many liveries, most were kept in immaculate condition. Somewhere like Uttoxeter on a race day would have been a sight to behold with specials from all over the country filling all the siding space. Also that era saw possiably the fastest advance in steam technology with stars like Churchward, Robinson and Raven to name but a few were building bigger and more powerfull locos every year but maintained grace and beauty (Krugers and Aberdares excepted!!!). WW1 battered this little countries' soul so badly that that gracious era was lost for ever.

[Buhar]

As an "age" I would go for the inter-war years for a combination of the end of the grouping with it's final flourishes; Spinners, big Claughtons, GSW Baltics, then through to Coronation Pacifics, Turbomotive and Jubilees. However to be of an age to experience that I'd have lost relatives in the first war, starved through the depression and the been called-up for the second war.

 

Pop back for a week? Summer 1921, Carlisle Citadel with £50 in my pocket to buy some train tickets.

[Jol Wilkinson]

The year? 1907. Webb's Teutonics were still in evidence, while Whale's new Precursors had arrived, gleaming in Blackberry Black. The elegance and luxury of the WCJS diners and the 2PM stock. Lovely.

 

Jol

[GC Jack]

The year? 1907. Webb's Teutonics were still in evidence, while Whale's new Precursors had arrived, gleaming in Blackberry Black. The elegance and luxury of the WCJS diners and the 2PM stock. Lovely.

 

Jol

 

It's worth reading the Trains We Loved to get a glimpse of this lost era. It's either from this book or Nock's on the Caley that describes the scene at Carlisle Citadel when the 2pm stock arrived there.

 

IIRC "It would seem that half the population of Calrlisle made the Citadel Station the destination of their evening promenade to see Cardean take the 2pm Corridor to Scotland"

 

Hard to imagine that situation at Carlisle today!

 

Jack

[Jol Wilkinson]

Am I correct in thinking that the same person was involved in creating a Nazi extermination camp scene for a private commission?

 

Tim

 

It may not be the same model. but the Nazi extermination camp and railhead diorama in the feature in the War Museum was one of the most poignant and evocative portrayals of those appalling places that I ever have seen.

 

Should the maker be chastised for producing it? It is the person that commission the piece, and their motivation, that has to be questioned and then accepted of decried.

 

Jol

[GC Jack]

Off the thread.

 

I support anything that reminds the present generation of the Nazi terror machine. If a model dispays that GOOD.

 

"Lest we forget" can be found on many war memorials. This horror could happen again otherwise.

 

Jack

[22xx]

Interesting ideas here - the birth of steam, the heyday of heavy freight and luxury expresses, the zenith of locomotive design, and nostalgic times just before things took various turns for the worse. But I'd go for something quite different.

 

I'd go for around 1840, when steam railways were opening up so many new possibilities that they seemed to have the world at their feet. Railway mania with a glorious future yet to come!

[Kelly]

perhaps pre-grouping or 1930s before the economic crisis hit.

[The Lurker]

perhaps pre-grouping or 1930s before the economic crisis hit.

the economic crisis started in 1929 with the Wall Street Crash - and had affected the UK by 1930.

 

To try to answer the original question, I tried to think when I would like to go back in time to - which avoids awkward scenarios like having to serve in a world war, suffering from Spanish flu, or being thrown out of work in the 30's.

 

Which leads me to think that the 1930s would be a good period to have travelled around by train, crack expresses, bucolic branch lines, and everything in between. But I would have also liked to have travelled around in the mid - late 1950's, as that was the last period when Britain's railways ran "everywhere".

[Kelly]

the economic crisis started in 1929 with the Wall Street Crash - and had affected the UK by 1930.

 

 

 

Ah, thanks for correcting me there couldn't quite remember when it was owing to poor memory on my part.

[Ozexpatriate]

A thoroughly pointless yet amusing question.

 

Part of me wants to say the late Victorian period. Railroads explode across North America (the transcontinental CP/UP line is completed in 1869) and in England, every man and his dog petitions Parliament to enact railway orders from Codswobbles to Marthambles. The technology may be immature, but as a business venture they are an economic powerhouse - hit or miss maybe, but much more renumerative and more useful than junk bonds or repackaged mortgages - literally the engines of the guilded age.

 

But on reflection, the global height of steam locomotion in terms of panache and style has to be the late 1930s. Art deco and industrial design converge with form following function in streamliners and observation cars. The steam powered railway is fast, hip and powerful. If I had to pin it down to a single year, it would be 1938. Here's a handful of introductions made in that period.

 

1935 Hiawatha with streamlined Class A 4-4-2 on the MILW

1936 Borsig DRB 4-6-4 Class 05 world record of 200.4kmph / 124.5mph

1937 Spirit of Progress with matching restyled streamlined 4-6-2 S-Class for VR

1937 Coast Daylight with the 4-8-4 GS-2 on the SP

1937 Coronation with 4-6-2 A4 in garter blue on the LNER

1937 Coronation Scot with streamlined 4-6-2 Princess Coronation on the LMSR

1938 Raymond Lowey inspired Broadway Limited set on the PRR

1938 Henry Dreyfuss inspired 20th Century Limited set with 4-6-4 Class J-3a on the NYC

1938 Otto Kuhler inspired Hiawatha set with streamlined 4-6-4 F7 on the MILW

1938 Mallard's world record 126mph

1941 4-8-4 GS-4 on the SP

1942 4-4-4-4 T1 on the PRR

 

From a global perspective, steam had passed it's zenith by the end of the war when US wartime restrictions were lifted, permitting passenger diesels. EMD E7s started hauling the 20th Century Limited as early as 1945 and the sun was starting to set on steam - the golden age was over.

[Poggy1165]

I should say about 1900, as it all started to go down hill after that, first with electric tramway competition. Then, after 1914, companies could no longer even keep their engines clean and after 1918 road competition really took off. Economies started to be made with simplified liveries, often plain black, the modeller's friend.

 

I suppose there has to be some excitement about the 1930s streamline era, and such majestic machines as the P2, but for the LNER at least this was pretty much fancy icing on an increasingly bankrupt cake. The extraordinary collection of pre-group antiques the company passed on to BR is proof enough of this latter. OK, some, like the O4s, were still good to go, but there was an awful lot well past sell-by date and absolutely minimal standardisation across the fleet.

 

As for the BR era, sorry, I do remember it and what I remember most was filthy, run-down neglected steam engines. I loved them, but it was obvious to me even then that the 'golden age' was long past. I remember my reaction on going to the Cambrian Coast and seeing clean engines - notably the Manor class, which were kept in a condition that even a pre-group cleaning foreman would have considered tolerable. It was astounding as the only clean engines one normally saw were ex-works. And in case any (G) WR types get cocky, your Granges that came into Crewe were as filthy as any LMR or ER engine I ever saw.