Earl Bathurst Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 Hi Everyone I have used dcc for a while and still have some questions which I aint clear on and hope someone can help me with this. Having had a few problems with dcc of recent I decided to go have a try at dc but having had a chat to a few member at the Rmweb day in Taunton I decided to stick with Dcc and try and learn for one's mistakes. Having tryed the NCE power cab and finding it a nice system to operate and use i am going to invest in this set up. But a bit of confusion on my part is regarding what chips to put in my locos, or which is the best type to use? I have used Bachmann in the past but which is the best to use and which isnt too expensive and will work ok with my locos? Thanks for any help Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveArkley Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 As with most things, by and large you get what you pay for. You don't say what scale your locomotives are or whether they already have DCC sockets. These things will impact the type of decoders you should fit. As for a brand, then I strongly suggest that you visit a DCC dealer or club where members already use DCC and ask him/her/them do show you a number of different decoders over the price range. I personally use Lenz decoders in N gauge locomotives. By no means the cheapest, I've found them very reliable, controllable and featured. However what works best for me may not address your priorities so I really do encourage you to see different brands in operation and choose for yourself. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Bathurst Posted May 5, 2012 Author Share Posted May 5, 2012 Hi Dave Thanks for the info. I model 00 gauge. Problem is not many people i know here have ventured from the basic Bachmann and the Bachmann chips so only ever seen that system work so any help wouls be great. Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 It might also help if you describe the problems you are looking to overcome. My experience with DCC using mainly Lenz equipment in OO, both RTR and kit builds, is that the 'standard' decoder will run almost anything. Completely reliable and can make even pretty poor mechanisms perform well. I have used the Bachmann 3 function decoders 36-553 and 36-554 in centre motor diesel chassis as they offered quite a saving when around £10 a throw, and well suited this type of intrinsically smooth running drive. However the price has now risen substantially to be very close to that of the Lenz standard, and as such the latter is the better value because it has a much greater range of adjustment. I haven't tried anything like all the competing decoders available, but most don't match Lenz basic drive refinement, that's until you start forking over a lot more for Zimo's products. Truly excellent and well worth it for difficult mechanisms that are not practical to improve mechanically. But all that's just me, with a preference for real smoothness so that the loco creeps in and out if motion whatever load it has on, and very extended acceleration and deceleration, just like real railway movement. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted May 5, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 5, 2012 Hello Scott, I read your earlier trials and tribulations and I'm pleased you've decided to stick with your DCC system. As Dave has commented, you do get what you pay for. This topic has been much debated in earlier threads, so I can only offer advice from my own personal experience. I use a Lenz control system and have fitted Lenz decoders into nearly all of my locos. The only non-Lenz have been a few DCC-fitted Bachmann locos, and one Hornby DCC on board. Over the last 4 years I've had no trouble whatsoever with the Lenz chips. They offer all the features I need, the only drawback being the premium price - which, as a long-term investment, I'm happy to pay. Have a chat with your club members and continue to get advice on the forum. But DO stick with DCC...!!! Best wishes, Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Physicsman Posted May 5, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 5, 2012 My experience with DCC using mainly Lenz equipment in OO, both RTR and kit builds, is that the 'standard' decoder will run almost anything. Completely reliable and can make even pretty poor mechanisms perform well. Snap!! Couldn't agree more, 34C! J Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 EoB, A good time to be asking. Although Zimo 'OO' sound decoders are 20% cheaper than Loksound, their non-sound decoders whilst excellent and very well regarded, have always seemed an expensive option. Zimo have just announced a reduced cost decoder, MX623. It has all the excellent attributes of its 'full fat' stablemates, but has 'only' 4 +2 function outputs (same as much of the competition) instead of Zimo's usual 8. It also has a max continuous power of 0.8A, rather than theusual 1.0A, but that is still more than enough for most modern models in 'OO'. This is great way to to get a taste of Zimo's legendary feature sets and superb motor control at a price that makes budget decoders look poor value. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Moria Posted May 5, 2012 Share Posted May 5, 2012 As with most things, by and large you get what you pay for. Cannot second this enough. I use N gauge and until recently have only used Lenz silver minis on my locos. I have used a couple of Bachman 6 pin decoders in units where they only control lighting in DMU trailer cards for example. For running, I have found them really touchy and won't allow one for motor drive in a loco. Having said that, I have just started fitting some Zimo 6 pin MX621N and have been awed by the quality of running and ease of set-up. In some cases, though, some locos will respond better to different decoders. The advice you have been given I would say is great.. something like the Lenz standard is a great general purpose decoder, but for a specific loco, you may want to ask the question and see if someone gives you a specific suggestion. Regards Graham Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Bathurst Posted May 6, 2012 Author Share Posted May 6, 2012 Hi Thanks for the advise. I always thought Lenz chips were going to be expensive but the lenz standard aint to badly priced. My problem is the amout of stock i got to chip. (It makes me weak at the knees when i think about all the chips i will need) What is the main differance between the Lenz standard and the lenz Silver and gold? Do the Lenz standard have a plug so you can just plug direct into the loco? Also what chip would you use for say the Model rail sentinal and the Heljan Railbus? Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 Thanks for the advise. I always thought Lenz chips were going to be expensive but the lenz standard aint to badly priced. My problem is the amout of stock i got to chip. (It makes me weak at the knees when i think about all the chips i will need) What is the main differance between the Lenz standard and the lenz Silver and gold? From the documentation by Lenz: Silver adds some more function effects, ABC braking, and ABC shuttle capabilities. The motor control and basic lighting is identical to Standard. Gold adds the fancy power supply management tricks, which in turn requires the Power-1 module (another £30+). Otherwise identical to Silver. So, for most people, Standard does all they need. Many of those who buy Silver's don't use ABC and many who buy Gold's rarely fit Power-1 modules. However, note Paul's comment about Zimo MX623's, they are another step up in motor control quality. And, if doing a lot of locos, discuss how much the price is for a batch of decoders with dealers. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnb Posted May 6, 2012 Share Posted May 6, 2012 I use an NCE PowerCab on my US switching layout with a variety of chips, mostly non-sound. Hornby, TCS, NCE, Digitrax, Atlas and one Lenz. All are the cheaper versions and I find that I have very little problem with any of them. I must admit to having fried a couple, but that was entirely my fault!!!! It really depends on what you are looking for, but I'm looking for slow running on a small switching layout, so don't need lots of functions or sophisticated control. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Bathurst Posted May 7, 2012 Author Share Posted May 7, 2012 Also another question, with locos like the crab there is very limited room so need a small decoder what would you suggest to fit that? Thanks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 Looking at the introductory Euro price of the new Zimo decoders - they work out at about £16, so now would be a good time to buy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combe Martin Posted May 7, 2012 Share Posted May 7, 2012 My favorites are the Lenz Standard+, Digitrax DN135D, or ZTC 255 or 258. The Lenz is very good but is a bit big, so unless you'r fitting it into a tender then space might be a problem. If you are fitting it to a Bachmann loco with the socket in the tender, you'll probably need a 21 to 8 pin adapter. Then you'll find that the height of all this is too much and you cant get the tender top back on, so will end up cutting down the plastic posts that Bachmann have mounted their 21 pin sockett on. The Digitrax DN135D is very small and only about £15 from Sunningwell Command Control (at an exhibition). I've used it for hard wiring in tank locos where there's not much space (eg a non DCC ready Bachmann Jinty), and it runs very well. But my favorites are the ZTC 255 (for hard wiring) and 258 (which has the 8 pin plug on its underside, length ways, not accross the frame). These run beautifully, and the 258 fits in every DCC ready RTR steam loco that I have, and they have loads of CVs to play with too if you want to. If you buy them in a 5 pack they cost £19 each, and I've never blown one up !. You do have to buy them from ZTC (mail order off their website or at exhibitions). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Bathurst Posted May 9, 2012 Author Share Posted May 9, 2012 Thanks for the info, I like the look of the ztc chips which plug straigh into the loco. And you dont get any problem at all? As for the Zimo I aint seen them around which shop would you get them from? Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigelcliffe Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Thanks for the info, I like the look of the ztc chips which plug straigh into the loco. And you dont get any problem at all? As for the Zimo I aint seen them around which shop would you get them from? Scott Zimo - quite a lot of UK retailers, three spring to my mind: Coastal DCC, DCC Supplies, Digitrains . I am sure there are others. - Nigel Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devondynosoar118 Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 I can confirm what has been said above about the Lenz chips, I have used 2nd hand silver minis and the one loco I had crawling along at Taunton has one of those in it. Look out for bulk deals on decoders, often you can save 5-10% buying more than 5 at a time. The basic 4 + 2 function decoders are fine for nearly all hard wire installations. If you really want to get the best from more expensive chips like Zimo or CT a Sprog2 and JMRI decoder pro is worthwhile. Having said that I have done all my programming with the Powercab after reading the descriptions provided by Nigel and others online and this has been ok, but has made it harder to set up the super fine motor control you can get from JMRI. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Bathurst Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 Thanks for the info has helped alot. I have decided i am going to go NCE and prob buy the 3 amp booster which should be enough for my new layout. As for decoder i might gove ZTC a go and see what they like is that viable? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
devondynosoar118 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Sounds like a solution. Use a brand you like and can get easily. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combe Martin Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 As for decoder i might gove ZTC a go and see what they like is that viable? The good thing about ZTC is because they are a UK firm and sell direct to the public, you can ring them and speak to someone that's an expert on their product, which you can't always do if you buy other decoders from a retailer. I have lots of 258s fitted to Bachmann & Hornby steam locos, and the default CV settings are a very good starting point, but if you want to improve their performance even more, tell me what loco it is and I'll let you know what I'm using. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Bathurst Posted May 11, 2012 Author Share Posted May 11, 2012 but if you want to improve their performance even more, tell me what loco it is and I'll let you know what I'm using. Thanks for that that will be great scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Never had a problem with ESU sound decoders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunbeam.20 Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Never had a problem with TCS decoders. I can highly recommend them. Matthew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Combe Martin Posted May 14, 2012 Share Posted May 14, 2012 Never had a problem with TCS decoders. I can highly recommend them. There are a load of faulty TCS DP2X-UK decoders 'around', which has been mentioned on some other threads on here. I know TCS are supposed to have a no quibble guarantee, but thats a bit awkward to take advantage of when they are in the USA and we're in the UK. My faulty one came from a DCC trader at an exhibition, but I couldnt remember their name, so couldnt then contact them to get a replacement. Eventually I saw them at another exhibtion and was able to arrange a replacement, but although they were a TCS dealer they didnt know about the faulty batch. So TCS hadnt told dealers to expect returns ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunbeam.20 Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 I have lost track of how many I have fitted for customers, plus the odd one for myself, and have never heard of this before. Perhaps it was just one batch, which fortunately for us Australians ended up in the UK! Matthew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.