Rhydgaled Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 My first train set was a Hornby Intercity 225 in Swallow livery, loco number is 91014 I think. I'm wondering if this class 91 has pickups on both the powered and un-powered bogies. If not is it possible to install some to improve running? (I recently saw a YouTube vid where a 91 stops on a crossover because the pickup wheels where on the plastic part of the crossover and want to avoid this kind of thing happening to mine). Also I'm torn between leaving the standard stickers representing head and tail lights or replacing them with either directional lighting or some plastic that looks more like lights but doesn't illuminate. The problem with directional lights is they would turn off when the train stops (not very realistic), unless I converted to DCC. Is it possible to have both DCC and standard system working on the same layout? This is so I could run DCC fitted trains (which would only be the ones that have lights) into one platform of a station while other trains (eg. steam locos) that are non-DCC fitted run into another platform (these wouldn't be two seperate lines, on the (hyperthetical) layout after a DCC train leaves a non-DCC service could then use the same platform). I've also had all 3 of my cab interiors out for years and now have no idea which should go in the front of the 91, which in the back and which in the DVT (none seem to be a perfect fit in any of the three positions, although 2 of the interiors look similar they seem to have a different part number on them.) EDIT: See last post for the questions that haven't been answered already. Finally, just a note in case it may be of use to somebody, some of the buffers were missing (only the front end of the 91 still has them) so I recently made replacements out of modeling putty for the DVT. I was planning on making some for the rear of the 91 too but used metal ones from an old tri-ang loco instead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_R Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Haver a look at http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/topic/4458-intercity-225s-complete-rakes/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 91 has left rail pickups on one bogie & right rail pickups on the other. That was fairly standard when it was introduced but things have improved since & the 91 is rather out of date. Express models do a lighting kit for the 91. They do a lightstore system which charges when the train runs then keeps the lights on for a while. If you want to go the DCC route, then some systems will let you run 1 DC loco on it BUT they do this by biasing the DCC signal which some motors do not like so this is not recommended. Keeping cab control & using your DCC system is a way around this but you could cause problems if a loco straddles DCC & DC sections (& most of us forget to switch sections off or on from time to time), so I would not recommend this either. Why not consider going completely DCC? I was a sceptic until earlier this year because I have in excess of 100 locos. I bought a cheap system in January & now I'm hooked. Most of my stock is still yet to be chipped so I don't run the 2 together. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhydgaled Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Haver a look at http://www.rmweb.co....complete-rakes/ Doesn't answer all my questions, but I guess it points me in the direction of some directional lights for the 91 if I choose to go down that route, so thanks for that. I also found the idea of converting a Mrk 4 TSO to a TSOE interesting, I hadn't thought of doing that, perhaps I will if I manage to get my hands on some more Swallow Mrk 4s. 91 has left rail pickups on one bogie & right rail pickups on the other. That was fairly standard when it was introduced but things have improved since & the 91 is rather out of date. So there are pickups on both powered and unpowered bogies then, but I guess it would still cut out if only one bogie was on live rail. Can anyone tell me how to add extra pickups? Express models do a lighting kit for the 91. They do a lightstore system which charges when the train runs then keeps the lights on for a while. Thanks, how much stationary lighting time would you get from say 30 seconds of running before the station stop? and is there a kit for the DVT's lights at the other end of the train? If you want to go the DCC route, then some systems will let you run 1 DC loco on it BUT they do this by biasing the DCC signal which some motors do not like so this is not recommended. Keeping cab control & using your DCC system is a way around this but you could cause problems if a loco straddles DCC & DC sections (& most of us forget to switch sections off or on from time to time), so I would not recommend this either. Could you rephrase this please? I know nothing at all about how the DCC system works and don't know the meaning of some of the technical language (eg. "they do this by biasing the DCC signal"). Also, my 0 knowlage of DCC showing itself again, I gather you can independantly control multiple locos on the same section of track without isolating rails in between with DCC, does this mean you need a controler unit of some sort for each loco? Why not consider going completely DCC? I was a sceptic until earlier this year because I have in excess of 100 locos. I bought a cheap system in January & now I'm hooked. Most of my stock is still yet to be chipped so I don't run the 2 together. Cost, mainly, but also I am under the impression older locos are hard DCC fit (it's not just the 91, I have other made in Britian stock from before production moved to China). The age of my fleet is also why I'm considering clear plastic without illumination for the 91's lights, because adding lights could make me want to fit lights to my other stock as well. I still don't know which cab interior goes where or if the 91s ever had matching buffers on both ends, any help with those? Finally (for now) one of my 3 original Mrk4s (I was given a 1st class car along with the train set) has a broken wheel. I was staying with grandparents last weekend and visted a shop (bringing the broken wheel with me) to try and obtain a replacement, however of the 3 types of wheel available none matched mine, are such wheels sold seperatlly or are they only available on Hornby Mrk4s? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_R Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 The difficulty with dcc chipping the earlier Ringfield type pancake motors is isolating the motor terminals from the pickups. At least one of the screws that holds the brush spring pressure plate in place goes completely through and makes contact with the metal body of the motor housing. This forms one side of the circuit. If your going dcc you have to either use shorter screws or find some other way of isolating the screw from the plate. I've used plastic washers and computer case screws in the past with varying success. Make sure you check it before you fit a chip or you'll have a little cloud of blue smoke in seconds when it touches the live track. The current disc wheels sold in packs by Hornby (10 in a pack as replacements) fit the MK4's fine and run nicely. If you really do want old ones rather than nice smooth new wheels let me know and i'll post you some. Biasing is rather hard to explain if your not electrically inclined, but think of it as an AC system pretending to produce a DC voltage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhydgaled Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 The difficulty with dcc chipping the earlier Ringfield type pancake motors is isolating the motor terminals from the pickups. At least one of the screws that holds the brush spring pressure plate in place goes completely through and makes contact with the metal body of the motor housing. This forms one side of the circuit. If your going dcc you have to either use shorter screws or find some other way of isolating the screw from the plate. I've used plastic washers and computer case screws in the past with varying success. Make sure you check it before you fit a chip or you'll have a little cloud of blue smoke in seconds when it touches the live track. Thanks for the warning, I think I will continue to avoid going DCC. The current disc wheels sold in packs by Hornby (10 in a pack as replacements) fit the MK4's fine and run nicely. If you really do want old ones rather than nice smooth new wheels let me know and i'll post you some. The problem with the new wheels is they don't match the originals in design, when in the shop I did consider replacing the wheels on the entire train but then I looked back at the price (??4.75 if I remember correctly) and decided against it. (I currently have 5 Mrk4s, the DVT and 2 standard class cars from the set plus the first class car I was given at the same time and my most recent model railway purchase, the buffet car. Replacing all of that would require 20 wheels and I hope to obtain a few more coaches in future). Also I think the new ones are all plastic, whereas the originals have metal rims (which I might need if there's one of those directional lighting kits available for the DVT). Here's my broken wheel, as you might be able to see (bad lighting in the pic) the wheel's rim is silver in colour and the inside is plain black with raised areas whereas, as you can see at this link, the new wheels are the same colour (dark metal) all over and don't have the extra raised areas inside. If the original wheels are not sold seperatly I guess I'll have to shop around and find 3 or 4 packets of the new ones at a cheaper price. Biasing is rather hard to explain if your not electrically inclined, but think of it as an AC system pretending to produce a DC voltage. Right, thanks for trying, I still haven't managed to get my head round alternating current as it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Baron Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Hmmm replacement wheels for mk4's you say? does this transform them into something cable of running at speed over peco code 100 points... The 5 I have are pretty rubbish runners especially if being propelled - hence I had decided to sell them and my 91 / dvt but I might reconsider if a wheel set swap will cure it? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_R Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Stick a bit more weigh in them and they run ok. The moulding is a very light one and i think the plastic is a bit thinner than on the MK3's. I found with a suitable slice of lead added into the ends of the undertray they run reasonably well. Being a very long wheel base doesn't help with the propelling problems. The New Hornby wheels are all metal, with a blackened finish. They have much better profiles than the old metal tyred plastic wheels and seem to have less of a tendancy to bounce around. I get that you don't want to mix styles, but as you've said it's only a 20 wheel swap, so that's 2 packs which i'm sure you can get for sub ??4 each if you shop around, and maybe 10 mins to swap them all out. The new ones look much nicer when they're in place. If your in the model shop ask if they will let you look at one of the current (well more recent anyway) Mk4's in the the later GNER livery. These are chinese made and all have the new wheels in them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Baron Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 sorry to be a PITA but whats the part number for the wheels? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhydgaled Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 The New Hornby wheels are all metal, with a blackened finish. They have much better profiles than the old metal tyred plastic wheels and seem to have less of a tendancy to bounce around. I get that you don't want to mix styles, but as you've said it's only a 20 wheel swap, so that's 2 packs which i'm sure you can get for sub ??4 each if you shop around, and maybe 10 mins to swap them all out. The new ones look much nicer when they're in place. If your in the model shop ask if they will let you look at one of the current (well more recent anyway) Mk4's in the the later GNER livery. These are chinese made and all have the new wheels in them. Does this include the models in the older (and in my opinion slightly better looking) version of GNER livery without the red doors? I had a look at a pic of those on the Hornby website and it looks as if there's not much chance of them being noticed as different anyway, so I'll see if I can find a pack cheaply. If I do I can sawp all 4 wheels on one of the coaches to see if the running improvements are worth buying more packs. All metal you say? They certainly looked to be all of one material and I assumed plastic because I thought having them all metal would cause a short cuircit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon_R Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 The wheels come in packs of 10 so you'll do 2 full coaches straight away and have a couple of spares. I can't be sure on exact livery differences i just know that the new stuff all has the new wheels, just have a look what they've got in. I've no idea on part numbers just ask them for a pack of Hornby disk wheels. They are all metal, but have a plastic fitting between wheel and axle to stop short circuits Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Baron Posted December 28, 2009 Share Posted December 28, 2009 Tried the wheel set swap... what a difference... points are no longer a thing approached with dread.... will pop the bodies off and add a little weight which should resolve the propelled issues too.... many thanks for the pointer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhydgaled Posted December 29, 2009 Author Share Posted December 29, 2009 Tried the wheel set swap... what a difference... points are no longer a thing approached with dread.... will pop the bodies off and add a little weight which should resolve the propelled issues too.... many thanks for the pointer. Sounds like they make signifficant improvments, maybe I should buy enough for all the coaches. Had a look at prices though and was having difficulty finding a good price from stores without large postage costs. I plan to continue to look into this. Still need some help with many of the other things, so please help if you can. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhydgaled Posted January 15, 2010 Author Share Posted January 15, 2010 Still need some help with many of the other things, so please help if you can. In particular I would like to know which of the 3 cab interiors go where, how to install additional electrical pickups to improve running and how to make some more detailed lights to replace the stickers (dummy ones unless there is a directional lighting with efficient batteries system for both the 91 and DVT) please. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhydgaled Posted March 1, 2010 Author Share Posted March 1, 2010 Well the little "bump this topic" button doesn't seem to be doing anything so... any good tutorials on fitting extra pickups to a Hornby class 91 from a Swallow livery Intercity 225 train set? any idea which cab interior goes in which cab on the model? (numbers on the interiors are: "L6847"&"2", "6703"&"678" and "6783"&"678") anywhere I can get 2 or 3 packs of the new Hornby disk wheels cheap (prefrablly for £3.50 or less each) with free or low cost postage? any tips on making or obtaining more realistic looking dummy lights (I've decided against directional lighting unless an easy to fit, reliable, non-dcc system is available for both the front of the 91 and DVT at a good price) for the 91 and DVT? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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