Dungrange Posted August 17, 2012 Share Posted August 17, 2012 I remember this being announced a couple of years ago, but did this model ever get produced? For those who have purchased the latest catalogue - is there any mention of this in the pipeline? Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
97403_Ixion Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Hi dungrange, I was wondering the same thing, when the catalogue came out. It does not appear to be listed in their 2012-2013 Catalogue. That said, I recall Dapol stating that other models or liveries of various items may be released during the year, not in the catalogue... in that context, the catalogue is not a complete list of their releases, so you never know! Dapol Dave - do you know if this B-B FEA-B is still going to be released? Cheers, Ixion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I asked this very same question some time ago on the forum, and my query was semingly ignored. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungrange Posted August 19, 2012 Author Share Posted August 19, 2012 Ixion, I'm sorry to hear that the Balfour Beatty FEA-B is no longer listed in the new 2012/13 catalogue, although I don't expect DapolDave to get back with a response anytime soon: I understand that he is still off on holiday and won't be back at work until the last week in August. Darkjunglemung, I saw your query in amongst the frothing about what may be in the 2012 catalogue when I was searching RMWeb for any news and couldn't see a response. I guess that DapolDave just missed that query, hence my reason for starting a new thread. I guess the explanation is probably some sort of licensing issue. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sutton Junction Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 This sounds like a very interesting model, has anyone got any photos of the real thing? Also what is this wagon used for? Thanks in advance Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich75 Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 i'm assuming it's this... http://www.flickr.com/photos/steam60163/6041952878/ hopefully it will happen, not alot of Balfour Beatty model stuff out there atm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungrange Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 Sutton Junction, Based on the Rails of Sheffield website, the model was assigned product code B900A and was to have represented wagons 640511 and 640512. My understanding was that this would be as per the Freightliner versions but in Balfour Beatty white livery (as opposed to the modified version that Rich has highlighted). I understand that the prototypes are used to deliver large quantities of concrete or steel sleepers to sites. If you look at page 8 of the .pdf file in this link, you will see what I think was going to be produced. http://www.sthengine...agonBooklet.pdf Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted August 21, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 21, 2012 IF a model of the NTC were to be built I would have one - they were originally built by our parent company in the USA This one was originally a GART Rail unit - later taken over by BBR (I think) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Pretty sure it won't be 640575/640576 (the New Track Construction train plant wagons) linked to/pictured, as they are based on standalone FEA-Ds not the FEA-B twins that Dapol has modelled. Dave is correct that the FEA-Bs that Balfour Beatty has are used as sleeper carriers (which work with the NTC?). Some images here from Andy Jupe: http://gingespotting...Balfour-Beatty/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungrange Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 I'll also have a New Track Construction train if Dapol want to produce one!! However, I understood that it was KRA wagons that operate in conjuction with the NTC, although I am no authority on such matters. Unfortunately the photograph to which I referred in post #7 has part of the NTC in the background, which is probably the source of any confusion. Martin, Thanks for the link to some photographs, which actually may answer my initial question. Although I understand these are classed as FEA-Bs, there seems to be a few differences between these and the standard 'Freightliner' flats that Dapol have produced: in particular the four pairs of stantions per wagon, what appears to be a higher deck in the centre of the wagon and what looks like folding sides. Perhaps Dapol hadn't realised how different they are when they initially announced this variant (I certainly hadn't) and then quietly dropped any plans for a Balfour Beatty variant when they realised the extent or cost of any tooling changes. Hopefully DapolDave will be able to explain when he gets back from his holiday. To be honest, I'd like any flat infrastructure wagon to be produced ready to run: it dosn't bother me too much whether it is an FEA-B in Balfour Beatty livery or a YSA / YWA 'Salmon', YLA 'Mullet', YQA 'Parr', etc. In 4mm scale there are plenty of ballast / spoil wagons from the major manufaturers, but a lack of flat wagons to accompany rakes of MRA Side Tippers, JNA 'Falcon', JJA 'Autoballasters', YGA/YGB 'Seacows', MFA / MTA / MHA 'Coalfish' etc. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 I understood that it was KRA wagons that operate in conjuction with the NTC Anyone know for sure? I've also seen KRA in that use, but had also ASSumed that train was the reason why Balfour Beatty had obtained these sleeper carriers in the first place! Although I understand these are classed as FEA-Bs, there seems to be a few differences between these and the standard 'Freightliner' flats that Dapol have produced: in particular the four pairs of stantions per wagon, what appears to be a higher deck in the centre of the wagon and what looks like folding sides. The (grey) wagons are largely the same I believe, all those differences you note are parts of the (blue) modules loaded onto the wagons - the idea being that unlike a bespoke sleeper carrying flat if there is a downturn in demand for them you can whip the modules off and replace them with something else, or even hire them out as intermodal flats. For example both Freightliner and GBRf obtained standalone FEA's (FEA-E/FEA-S) fitted with flat (Salmon) or drop side (Tench) modules but the modules have largely since been removed, with the wagons now used for Intermodal/Binliner/Gypsum traffics. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungrange Posted August 21, 2012 Author Share Posted August 21, 2012 Martin, Thanks for the explanation: from looking at the photographs I hadn't realised that the blue metalwork was separate detachable modules. It makes sense that they are for flexibility in use. However, maybe Dapol feel that there will be limited demand for a 'standard' FEA-B in Balfour Beatty livery without producing the detachable modules and the cost of doing so may not be a sound investment. There might be seven of us who have posted in this thread, but that hardly constitutes significant demand. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 My suspicion is you're spot on with that assesment! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungrange Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Martin, A little more research would seem to indicate that the Balfour Beatty FEA-B wagons are intended to operate with the New Track Construction trains, as you suggested. The following link to the April 2009 issue of 'The Railway Magazine' (http://www.exacteditions.com/read/railway/april-2009-4983/84/3/) states that Balfour Beatty have two NTCs and that all components are modular, mounted onto standard FEA-B intermodal flats Nos 640510 to 640514 and FEA-D nos 640571 - 640576. The following link (http://www.ltsv.com/w_profile_051.php) also indicates that "twenty were ordered by Balfour Beatty and given the seemingly odd numbers of 640501 to 640514 (twins) and 640571 to 640576 (singles). These wagons were for use with Balfour Beatty’s New Track Construction (NTC) machines, and they were fitted with specialised modules to handle sleepers (501-514) and track laying equipment (571-576). The modules were mid-blue while the wagons themselves were light blue. The batch spent some time at Crescent Wharf, Peterborough, being fitted out for their role, during which time the design codes of some were changed from FE004C to FE004F and FE004G, the TOPS code remaining as FEA-D. In service, the sleeper carriers (501-514) are most often used with equipment carriers 640573 and 640574, while the other equipment carriers tend to work with KFA sleeper carriers or other types". It appears that it was the FEA-D wagons that were fitted out at Peterborough. In the document that I linked to in post #7, there is reference to the KRA wagons being used with the NTC machine (see page 21). However, the LTSV website indicates that these wagons carry the numbers JARV97101-97132 which probably means that they would not work with a Balfour Beatty NTC. Of course I do not know what happened to these following Jarvis Rail entering administration. However, they do look broadly similar to the photographs of the FEA-B wagons that you provided a link to (see http://fewsfots.jalbum.net/LOCAL/2012/index.html?autoload=image138), which may explain any confusion. An alternative explanation would of course be that Jarvis Rail also operated a NTC machine, although I can't find any reference to this. Anyway, I look forward to a response from DapolDave in due course. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 The Jarvis wagons were taken over by Network Rail, they are now prefixed NR instead of JARV http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/K-Tops-codes/KRA-sleeper-carriers So we're saying 3x NTC trains, each with 2x FEA singles, 1 of which works with the FEA twins as sleeper carriers, 2 of which work with KRA. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungrange Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 Martin, Thanks for confirming the change in ownership of the KRA wagons following Jarivs Rail going into administration. Your suggestion sounds plausible, but I can only find reference to two NTC trains, both operated by Balfour Beatty. The April 2009 version of The Railway magazine (linked in post #14) states that Balfour Beatty operate two trains and that these use YJA self powered wagons no DR78701 and DR78702. The LTSV website (http://www.ltsv.com/...umbers_ceps.php) provides a list of numbers in the CEPS (Civil Engineers Plant System) series and 78701 and 78702 are the only two references to "Harsco New Track Construction Machine Power Wagon", both constructed in 2004. As I can't find any references to any other operators using NTC Machines, I would have to conclude that there are only two such trains. However, I note that there is more than one video on YouTube that record the NTC being moved, which is what looks like a consist of three flat wagons between two EWS class 66 locomotives. Unfortunately, I'm not sure if this is the YJA and two FEA-Ds, but suspect that this may be the case. However, there are no FEA-B sleeper carriers in the consist, which would imply that these may be moved to the site separately, which would justify operating a rake of Balfour Beatty FEA-B wagons without the NTC. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 Trouble is I keep seeing the same set, which just has 2 of the 6 FEA-D plus generator wagon, hence the assumption that there were 3 sets...sounds like it's time for more digging! The ones I keep seeing (3 times now!) are 640575 (with the sleeper crane) and 640576 (with the gantry) http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/F/FEA-D-Balfour-Beatty-module Working with power wagon YJA-F DR78701 http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/Y-Tops-codes/YJA-F-Balfour-Beatty-track/ That seems to have KRA support when i've seen it (both Hoo and ADJ - it didn't have any sleeper carriers when seen at Toton). Can't seem to find any images of 640571 online. 640572 - usage unknown? http://www.flickr.com/photos/17001427@N08/1805216719/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/class_153/7642125380/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/class_153/7642127542/in/photostream/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/class_153/7642129532/in/photostream/ 640573 - steel sleeper load? http://www.flickr.com/photos/lereddog/7815640106/ 640574 - looks like the same modules as above, only empty? http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5854540966/ Having a look on OTP.Net has more images, which suggests that 571/572 and 78702 are normally seen together as the second NTC train, and 573/574 are normally seen together but not at the location the NTC trains are, so they may be a bit of a red herring? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungrange Posted August 23, 2012 Author Share Posted August 23, 2012 Martin, It is interesting that the photographs of the FEA-D wagons 640573 and 640574 look to show them with the same sleeper carrying modules as the FEA-B wagons that you linked to in post #9. Having re-read the quotation from the LTSV website that is in post #14 "In service, the sleeper carriers (501-514) are most often used with equipment carriers 640573 and 640574, while the other equipment carriers tend to work with KFA sleeper carriers or other types", does this mean that we have only two NTC sets Power wagon YJA-F DR78701 + 640575 (with the sleeper crane) and 640576 (with the gantry); and Power wagon YJA-F DR78702 + 640571 (presumably with the sleeper crane) and 640572 (presumably with the gantry). The other two FEA-D wagons 640573 and 640574 are then potentially used in exactly the same way as the FEA-B wagons, simply to carry sleepers to support the NTC or simply to convey sleepers to possessions. That is the sleeper load behind the NTC in operation can then be accomodated on a 16 wagons train comprising seven FEA-B twins and the remaining two FEA-D wagons. Alternatively sleepers could be carried on another wagon type such as the KRA. There seems to be 32 of these wagons, so that would imply that there may be three sleeper carrying rakes: 2 rakes of 16 KRA + the 14 Balfour Beatty FEA-B / 2 FEA-D wagons. Hopefully all this confusion and uncertainty wont put Dapol off producing the Balfour Beatty FEA-B wagons. Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dungrange Posted November 18, 2012 Author Share Posted November 18, 2012 DapolDave, I'm sure that you missed this thread when you arrived back from holiday at the end of August. Would you care to confirm whether or not Dapol still intend to produce an FEA-B in Balfour Beatty livery? Regards David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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