jjnewitt Posted October 18, 2012 Share Posted October 18, 2012 The question is simple: Which was the first dual braked/Serck radiator shutter fitted class 47 to be found on the Western Region and when did it appear? I've tried searching on here and in other places but couldn't find the answer so I thought here would be a good place to ask. Class47.co.uk suggests that it was D1666 but I found this picture of her at Bath in April 1965 and she has the three part radiator grille so fitting of the Serck shutters obviously wasn't from new. Certainly by the middle of March 1965 Brush were turning them out with the Serck shutters but when did the BR built ones start to appear with them (the ones being delivered to the WR at the time were BR built)? Photos of the relevant locos at the time aren't as plentiful as I'd like! Thanks, Justin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slilley Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 The first Brush built loco with the later type radiators was D1807. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I thnk D1673 was listed as being the first (ZC built) somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 D1676 had them by January 1967 Sulzer locos of British Rail by Brian Webb states that D1631 - 81 and D1758 upwards were initially fitted with the hydrostatically operated shutters. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Pictures exist of D1661 and D1662 with three-part grilles. The picture of D1661 is in the book Class 47 Diesels (Taylor/Thornley/Hill, I think) EDIT: Found this: ClicketyClick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 Hi all, Thanks for yor replys. Pictures exist of D1661 and D1662 with three-part grilles. The picture of D1661 is in the book Class 47 Diesels (Taylor/Thornley/Hill, I think) EDIT: Found this: ClicketyClick Nice that IKB was named at Bristol TM. I didn't know that. D1676 had them by January 1967 Sulzer locos of British Rail by Brian Webb states that D1631 - 81 and D1758 upwards were initially fitted with the hydrostatically operated shutters. Quite a few had them before 1967. D1672 had them fitted by August 1965 (it looks like they've only just been fitted as well), D1667 by April 1966, D1671 by October 1965, D1646 by August 1965. I've read those numbers elsewhere. I was reading an article by Monty Wells in MRJ 73 (I think) where he quoted those numbers as those fitted with Serck shutters. It would seem from a quick trawl that all those locos ended up with Serck shutters and therefore were dual braked but they certainly all didn't all have the Serck shutters from new. I was looking again at the photo of D1666 with the three part grille I linked in my earlier post and noticed the air brake pipe on the buffer beam. Other photos I found of similarly equiped locos were D1661 and D1648. So when did the locos start to appear with dual brakes? I thnk D1673 was listed as being the first (ZC built) somewhere. The first Brush built loco with the later type radiators was D1807. But were they fitted with them from new or were they retrofitted with them? If they were the first ones to be fitted with them from new then it seems odd that Crewe was so far behind Brush. D1807 entered traffic on 25/01/65 and D1673 on 03/04/65. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 D1673 was, I believe, fitted with louvres from new. I cannot find my reference material right now but I am sure that D1660 and those that followed in that batch were dual braked from new, but with three part grilles and a later conversion to louvres. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 I just found this picture of a dual braked, three part grille fitted D1660. If they were dual braked from D1660 onwards from new what about D1648? I know they weren't delivered in numerical order but she did appear earlier than D1660, 22/01/65 for D1648 and 13/02/65 for D1660. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raffles Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I must try and dig out my books... it's all in there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slilley Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Hi all, Thanks for yor replys. Nice that IKB was named at Bristol TM. I didn't know that. Quite a few had them before 1967. D1672 had them fitted by August 1965 (it looks like they've only just been fitted as well), D1667 by April 1966, D1671 by October 1965, D1646 by August 1965. I've read those numbers elsewhere. I was reading an article by Monty Wells in MRJ 73 (I think) where he quoted those numbers as those fitted with Serck shutters. It would seem from a quick trawl that all those locos ended up with Serck shutters and therefore were dual braked but they certainly all didn't all have the Serck shutters from new. I was looking again at the photo of D1666 with the three part grille I linked in my earlier post and noticed the air brake pipe on the buffer beam. Other photos I found of similarly equiped locos were D1661 and D1648. So when did the locos start to appear with dual brakes? But were they fitted with them from new or were they retrofitted with them? If they were the first ones to be fitted with them from new then it seems odd that Crewe was so far behind Brush. D1807 entered traffic on 25/01/65 and D1673 on 03/04/65. A paper I have, Beasent F.H., Development of the Brush Type 4 Locomotives of British Rail. Institution of Locomotive Engineers Paper No 695 20/11/67 goes into a lot of detail as to all the changes made to the Brush Type 4s during production. It is not unusual for there to be a lag between the two sites for introducing changes. D1807 was the first to be fitted from new with this type of radiator shutter. There was retro fitting of locos which were equipped with mark 1 air brake equipment. Work done by Brush. Further details are in the book Class 47: 50 Years of Locomotive History. Regards Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjnewitt Posted December 5, 2012 Author Share Posted December 5, 2012 A paper I have, Beasent F.H., Development of the Brush Type 4 Locomotives of British Rail. Institution of Locomotive Engineers Paper No 695 20/11/67 goes into a lot of detail as to all the changes made to the Brush Type 4s during production. It is not unusual for there to be a lag between the two sites for introducing changes. D1807 was the first to be fitted from new with this type of radiator shutter. There was retro fitting of locos which were equipped with mark 1 air brake equipment. Work done by Brush. Further details are in the book Class 47: 50 Years of Locomotive History. Regards Simon I finally had chance to have a look at the book you mentioned at the NRM yesterday and it didn't really help matters. I could find no reference as to which WR locos had the Mk1 and Mk2 airbrakes fitted to them from new. There was some detail as to the systems used but not a lot of with regards to specific locos. I may well have missed something though as I'd spent most of the day looking at works drawingsbut I looked through the relevant sections. The only thing I found of real interest was a picture of D1667 with the Serck shutters fitted dated the beginning of April 1965. Assuming the date is correct (which of course it might not be) this would seem to be a bit early for a retrofit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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