DougN Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Scott I had some success with a hot glue gun to get the bark surface and to hold the trees in their shape. Also as it is flexible will not drop off! The truncks I found need to be painted a mid grey rather than a brown or black. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 Scott has an interesting idea there, I might put a proposition to my 12 yr old daughter, as she loves her Hot Glue Gun. I don't know how many will remember Jas and Kal, back a while, here-abouts and she used Copydex, for much the same reasons. Kind regards Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 While on the subject of trees - what's this? With apologies ..... Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 While on the subject of trees - what's this? With apologies ..... Julian 11/3 :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 Scott, I think making your own trees is the only way to go. In my experience, “RTR” trees are generally too small, and too generic to use on a layout, if you are really trying to capture the true flavour of a location. I’m sure it has already been suggested, but Gordon Gravett has a couple of excellent books featuring some of the techniques you are using to create trees and scenery in general. It's a bit of mucking around, but once I get the hang of it, and do it in batches, it will be fine. I'll need to work out ow to make poplars... looking in a hobby store there were some around 15cm at a fair price ($6 AUD) but they are too small by 30%. I could see they were made from bottlebruses, so there's a clue... Scott I had some success with a hot glue gun to get the bark surface and to hold the trees in their shape. Also as it is flexible will not drop off! The truncks I found need to be painted a mid grey rather than a brown or black. The hot glue gun is a tool I don't have *yet*, but will keep it in mind. As these were always going to be background trees, and I want them tonally to be darker all over, I used deep green turf for the leaves, and brown on the trunks - but agree, that grey or light brown will be better for ones up close. Scott has an interesting idea there, I might put a proposition to my 12 yr old daughter, as she loves her Hot Glue Gun. I don't know how many will remember Jas and Kal, back a while, here-abouts and she used Copydex, for much the same reasons. Kind regards Julian I got a shipment from WWS of their pump pack glue - put the spray adhesive seems to work okay. It's a shame Kal and Jaz aren't here... but I just don't have the hours in the day to join them on a Facebook group, too. I rarely stop in on the LNER group online anymore. Time is a very finite resource. Cheers Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted February 25, 2018 Author Share Posted February 25, 2018 (edited) And so to my first trees. I covered the armature with the wispy fish filter like material, sprayed it with glue, and then sprinkled Woodlands coarse turf across it. And under it. And over it. Till it was covered. I added some highlights with a heath mix to break up the flat colour. Once this one was done, I could see I'd made the webbing of filter material too dense - all my branch handiwork has disappeared. So I used a lot less on my next armature... But even that was a bit too clumpy for me, so I cut back even further for the third test tree And that is pretty much what I wanted in the first place. So the lesson was not to use too much filter to create the leaf base. The other thing became obvious as I progressed - the trees are almost "hollow" in that the leaves are all to the outside of the space created by the armature. If you think of them that way, then leaving space and gaps so the branch work is visible, becomes a planned thing. I also played around with treating a short section of some coconut husk with turf scatter for a test hedgerow. I need to put some ground cover down before I can pass judgement on how effective that is. Cheers Scott Edited February 25, 2018 by jukebox 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 Out and about for a drive this past weekend, I came across this scene: Now I may well be 12,000 miles away from Wearside, but that doesn't mean I can't use local trees for inspiration, especially if they were brought in by Johnny Foreigner some time in the last 200 years! The best part was, it's actually two trees, not one: and yes, I took a sample of the leaves, so I can look and see what sort of material will match. In the mean time, I've been working on a little something for the tunnel mountain... more on that late rin the week. Cheers Scott 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
runs as required Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Its a bit too lush fer Wearside man. But a bit shorter and yer spot on :-) dh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 Its a bit too lush fer Wearside man. But a bit shorter and yer spot on :-) dh And that blue sky's an anachronism for Geordieland, too! T'was a lovely day here - around 30C and a breeze to keep it comfortable. Perfect weather to take the jalopy for a spin down some country roads... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 6, 2018 Author Share Posted March 6, 2018 So while I've been waiting for the Greenkeeper to land, I had a little inspiration: Not needing to make a carbon copy, but liking the style, I came up with: My attempt to coat it in matt varnish has failed today - the stuff isn't matting well enough, so I'll need to find some Dullcoate, after which I'll add the grout and weathering. Cheers, Scott 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 10, 2018 Author Share Posted March 10, 2018 (edited) Finally got my rock castings looking how I wanted, so I'm on my way down the rollercoaster... The Greenkeeper arrived from Germany, and my samples of flock and grass are here, so it's time to get playing. I've marked up the tunnel hill with some fence lines and a hedgerow. I'll break the hedge with a gate. That gives me three zones to populate with different looks of ground cover. First up: the palette of flocks I have to chose from for the undercover: I'll save the more strident greens for the gentle hill by the river. Cheers Scott Edited March 10, 2018 by jukebox 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 11, 2018 Author Share Posted March 11, 2018 Had my first play with some scatters: ] This is just scatter... I have yet to add any static grass... I'm happy with the look this is giving - vaguely moorlandish... perhaps. I went back and did some detail scatter infill on the upper rocks. I haven't gotten to the lower rock face yet. That is Woodland Scenics "Earth", a peaty brown. This was taken so I can see the back face of the cutting - you cant see this with the naked eye. I've done well to get that left hand face covered by feel, not sight. I want to make sure it looks fine, as sure as anything, if I leave it, I'll take a photo at some point in the future with the lens pointing this way, and the raw plaster will stick out. So a think cascading wall of greenery will cover the left hand face - but I'll give it a wash of darker brown paint first. Cheers Scott 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 15, 2018 Author Share Posted March 15, 2018 Dullcoate acquired - thanks to Stanbridges, in Mt Lawley. 30 seconds later, it's shiney and reeking fumes. 2 hrs later, it is ready to plant: and a lower angle: Ready to plant. Rather cruel close ups. This is only 50mm high in reality! Unless you are 7ft tall, when you view the layout, you will look up to this on the ridge of the mountain, not down into it. This will sit less than 12" off the backscene, so you can't see the back - which is why I was able to lap the rolled joint, not butt glue it. It was a lot faster. For the record, the unseeable side looks like this: (I was testing the weathering on that side - but as it isn't visible, didn't see the point in going back and toning it down) Before I matt coated it, I added a grid of iron bars, made from small dia plastic rod. I've seen these somewhere, and they seem logical... No, not *that* fancy! Next up, I have some static grass to play with... Cheers Scott 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Hello Scott, I thought I'd pop over and have a look at Stockrington - I suppose I'd better start at page 1 and catch up with you later. I did read your introduction though and I agree with much, if not all, of what you said. Cheers, Philip PS: I saw your ventilation shafts as I scrolled down the page - looked very good especially as they're items usually missing from the modelling scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Hello Scott, ................................. .................................... Philip PS: I saw your ventilation shafts as I scrolled down the page - looked very good especially as they're items usually missing from the modelling scene. When I read this, a thought occurred. Ventilation shafts were a very good way to keep the tunnel in the right direction when it was being constructed. ............ However, were they particularly effective at ventilating the tunnel, when complete? Whilst I see that warm loco exhaust would tend to rise up the shafts, the replacement air still has to enter at the tunnel ends, which would happen naturaly due to weather conditions. Would there be any significant increase in replacement speed and would that be very relevant given the time between trains passing through? Given the piston effect of the close fit of a train in the tunnel, which would largely pull/push replacement air with them, surely ventilator effectiveness would be minimal by comparison. Kind regards J 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 When I read this, a thought occurred. Ventilation shafts were a very good way to keep the tunnel in the right direction when it was being constructed. ............ However, were they particularly effective at ventilating the tunnel, when complete? Whilst I see that warm loco exhaust would tend to rise up the shafts, the replacement air still has to enter at the tunnel ends, which would happen naturaly due to weather conditions. Would there be any significant increase in replacement speed and would that be very relevant given the time between trains passing through? Given the piston effect of the close fit of a train in the tunnel, which would largely pull/push replacement air with them, surely ventilator effectiveness would be minimal by comparison. Kind regards J This image was actually the one that inspired me to have a vent on Stockrington: I first saw it about 45 years ago in my father's copy of OS Nock's "The Railways of Britain - past and present" (1947).... Never under-estimate the power of imagination to inspire youth Cheers Scott 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) A rather productive Saturday on Stockrington. I was up early, so decided to make a family of tree armatures while I watched the morning news on TV. I'm not happy with Mk 1 and Mk 2 of the trees, and want the ones above the tunnel to have a family look to them, so decided I needed to batch create. I'm getting faster at twisting them, and they have had the trunks painted, and are ready to... Folate? Foligate? Stick leaves on. This afternoon, I had my first attempt at static grass. This is the Greenkeeper 35kV I'm using. Everything except the spike comes with the kit. Even the 9V battery. No action shots... I just applied a 25:75 water PVA layer, and shook the 6mm WWS summer mix on. Thats a slightly disconcerting overhead view. The PVA was a bit runny, and pooled outside my target area. No big issue. This view also shows the way the scenery falls away behind eye level up on the ridge. The WWS static grass does seem to bleed some colour into the PVA. But it does work - and is sitting up nicely. I'll be interested to see how much difference the different colours of under-flocking make. None, I suspect, but we'll see. Learned real quick not to touch the socket the lead plugs into, either - got myself a nice little boot from it! I now have an idea of how much coverage 1 bag of static grass gives me.... (it's not the cost of the grass that bothers me - it's the postage! That stuff weighs nothing, and has no bulk, but both WWS and Macterials seem to charge an arm and a leg for 100-200g of the stuff to be shipped down under) But having sledged Jeff mercilessly about the lack of grass on KL1, I'm pleased to have put some down on my own layout. Another milestone reached. Cheers Scott Edited March 17, 2018 by jukebox 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcredfer Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 This image was actually the one that inspired me to have a vent on Stockrington: shakey.jpg I first saw it about 45 years ago in my father's copy of OS Nock's "The Railways of Britain - past and present" (1947).... OSNock.jpg Never under-estimate the power of imagination to inspire youth Cheers Scott Interestingly, that looks like warm moist air from the tunnel rising quite slowly and condensing in the cooler air over the cliffs top fields. It doesn't seem like a particularly effective system, compared to other ways that ventilation would naturaly occur. I rather suspect they were called Ventilation Shafts as an excuse for not bothering to fill in what were Navigation Shafts. Nice book, too. Those new trees do look very good, they will look the business once they have got exfoliated. [Perfect timing for Spring, over here.] Did you pre-mix the grass types before using the Static Grass Applicator? Kind regards Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 @ Jukebox #791, Is that the section of the south coast line between Folkestone and Dover? If it isn't it, certainly reminds me of where the A20 dual carriageway now passes near-to the access to Samphire Hoe. Probably changed a lot since the photo was taken. Cheers, Philip Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 @ Jukebox #791, Is that the section of the south coast line between Folkestone and Dover? If it isn't it, certainly reminds me of where the A20 dual carriageway now passes near-to the access to Samphire Hoe. Probably changed a lot since the photo was taken. Cheers, Philip by David Todd 2012, on Flickr 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 This image was actually the one that inspired me to have a vent on Stockrington: shakey.jpg I first saw it about 45 years ago in my father's copy of OS Nock's "The Railways of Britain - past and present" (1947).... OSNock.jpg Never under-estimate the power of imagination to inspire youth Cheers Scott The reverse shot, the black n white photo was taken from the top, I live a mile away from this photo', the photo was taken last summer,on a guided walk,up from Samphire Hoe, 3. miles along cliff top and return, I was back marker. by David Todd 2012, on Flickr 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jukebox Posted March 17, 2018 Author Share Posted March 17, 2018 Interestingly, that looks like warm moist air from the tunnel rising quite slowly and condensing in the cooler air over the cliffs top fields. It doesn't seem like a particularly effective system, compared to other ways that ventilation would naturaly occur. I rather suspect they were called Ventilation Shafts as an excuse for not bothering to fill in what were Navigation Shafts. Nice book, too. Those new trees do look very good, they will look the business once they have got exfoliated. [Perfect timing for Spring, over here.] Did you pre-mix the grass types before using the Static Grass Applicator? Kind regards Julian Not so much navigation shafts as construction faces, typically. Dig down to rail level, then head sideways in both directions.... Yes, rather pleased with those trees - about 90 mins work, sat on the lounge. Looking forward to leaving them rather more sparsely greened, so those spindly branches aren't so hidden... Eventually I will play with mixes of grass. Today was just a pure dump from the WWS bag. That summer mix does have a blend of colours - but I can see how it looks too homogenous, so will need to build up some strategic areas to give it some texture. Again, to put it in perspective, this isn't a feature area of the layout - just a consequence of hiding the tight radius curve under a bloody great hill and tunnel. It needs to look interesting/right, but not take six months to detail. I'll place an order for some shorter grasses, after I've had a look see at the dried area tomorrow. Cheers SJ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philou Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Nice photos - until I retired, I used to pass along there every three weeks to catch the ferry. Luckily, never got stuck in any 'Operation Stack'. That long line of shafts is impressive, more so when you get alongside them. They're anything but small! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 What were the vent's in the field's for ? East end of Shakespeare Tunnel,Dover, Kent. Shakespeare Cliff by David Todd 2012, on Flickr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) I took the photo, being back marker, this section,is an ankle breaker. by David Todd 2012, on Flickr by David Todd 2012, on Flickr Edited March 17, 2018 by David Todd 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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