ia909 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Hi all, I've been modelling European and US railways for a long time having turned my back on OO many years ago when the quality was, in the main, quite poor. Now though, things seem to be much better and I'm thinking of buying my first British sound loco. I'd like to model Scotland and am looking at Bachmann's sound-equipped 37 417 "Highland Region" (model 32-377DS) or the silent 37 506 (model 32-387) and having sound added by one of the well-known traders such as Howes, Coastal, Digitrains, Olivias etc. My questions are firstly, which decoder does 37 417 loco have, (i think it might be a LokSound 3.5 or 4), and secondly, (and in particular if "417" has the older 3.5 decoder), would I be better buying a non-sound loco and having custom sound added? I think overall the final price for either option is fairly close. I don't want to buy something, be disappointed and give up! Many thanks. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HLT 0109 Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 Ian, If you have the time to browe/search this forum you will find lots of discussion about class 37 sound and choice of decoder, plus videos. There is no substitute for hearing/playing with them all before making your choice and, in the end, personal preference will be the deciding factor. Digitrains sounds are created by "pauliebanger" and his approach is to make avaiable to the modeller, a larger degree of customising of the sounds than other suppliers tend to (although it is said that newly created sounds on Loksound V4 are catching up). What I think you need to avoid is a loco with sounds from a Loksound v3.5 loaded onto a v4. I cannot answer your first question but I think you would be better to have your chosen sound added to your chosen loco. If 32-377DS happens to please you, that's great and it would probably be the cheaper option, if you shop around. Harold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ia909 Posted October 29, 2012 Author Share Posted October 29, 2012 Harold Many thanks for the advice. I was wavering towards the add sound later option; that does seem like a better bet but I'll try and have a listen to "Highland Region" in person if I can. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Harold Many thanks for the advice. I was wavering towards the add sound later option; that does seem like a better bet but I'll try and have a listen to "Highland Region" in person if I can. Ian Ian, Don't just listen to the sounds. Discover how the loco drives, how do the sounds work with the locos movement. Try this if you get the chance to run one. Run it up to max engine sounds and stop the loco as quickly as possible with the throttle control. Real locos do not come to a halt with the motor at full revs in normal circumstances. (Nor do they normally stop this way, but I want to test the extremes). They should be just idling in most circumstances. Many sound projects will fail this basic test. It's possible to make allowances for these failings when you gain familiarity with the sounds. This is described as 'driving to suit the sounds'. It is a fudge. For ultimate satisfaction, find projects which allow geater control of how the sounds work. By and large, that rules out many of those which come with r-t-r locos. It really helps if you know how your loco works in real life. Engine revs in a diesel electric like the 37 are not proportional to road speed, faster doesn't always mean higher engine power, and many heavy laden trains need max power even at moderate speeds. I have no idea where you are based, but if you can get to Spalding show on 10 or 11 November, I will be running a sound clinic during which I can explain all this and how good quality projects allow you to be in charge of the loco, not the other way around. Kind regards, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ia909 Posted October 30, 2012 Author Share Posted October 30, 2012 Hi Paul I appreciate the response. I've some experience with US sound locos having a Bachmann ON30 Climax logging engine, and a Blackstone HOn3 C-19, both of which have Soundtraxx Tsunamis, and a Broadway switcher with their Paragon 2 sound fitted. I also had a big Kato AC4400CW to which I added a Digitrax sound-bug but it was awful. I know what you mean about driving the locos - all the more important when the layout is a 16' shelf affair. I'm an hour south of Spalding and have been to the show many times. Each year it gets busier and with Hornby featuring heavily this year I'm debating whether to attend. I commute to work in London by train and tube and after five days I try to avoid crowds! If I attend I'll come over and say "hello". One final question if I may - in all the locos mentioned above, when the volume is turned right down, (or perhaps when the loco is ending its engine shutdown sequence), I can always hear "white noise" from the speaker - is this the same for every sound loco? I don't hear anything from my stereo system when the sound inputs aren't present. Kind regards. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HLT 0109 Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Ian, If you do make it to Spalding I feel sure you will find time at Paul's clinic very rewarding. I have just acquired one of "his" A4s after attending his clinic at Peterborough and its performance is just so much better than my other steam locos. One thing I have noticed is that the slow running (and I mean really creeping) is so much better than those with manufacturer-fitted sound. This is probably due (at least in part) to the Zimo decoder being of better quality than those fitted by the loco manufacturers. Your interest appears to be diesels and Paul's magic has been worked there too. Harold. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Hi Paul I appreciate the response. I've some experience with US sound locos having a Bachmann ON30 Climax logging engine, and a Blackstone HOn3 C-19, both of which have Soundtraxx Tsunamis, and a Broadway switcher with their Paragon 2 sound fitted. I also had a big Kato AC4400CW to which I added a Digitrax sound-bug but it was awful. I know what you mean about driving the locos - all the more important when the layout is a 16' shelf affair. I'm an hour south of Spalding and have been to the show many times. Each year it gets busier and with Hornby featuring heavily this year I'm debating whether to attend. I commute to work in London by train and tube and after five days I try to avoid crowds! If I attend I'll come over and say "hello". One final question if I may - in all the locos mentioned above, when the volume is turned right down, (or perhaps when the loco is ending its engine shutdown sequence), I can always hear "white noise" from the speaker - is this the same for every sound loco? I don't hear anything from my stereo system when the sound inputs aren't present. Kind regards. Ian Ian, Let me clear up a little misundertanding. It's not Hornby (as in train sets) that's heavily featured, but a remarkably good, independent, publication Hornby Magazine which is the main sponsor of the show. There will be no excessive promotion of Hornby Models, as HM covers all brands and scales. If you make it, you will see my demonstration of an 'OO' gauge Class 47 start off, 'accelerate' through all the sound stages to max power, and then spool down to idle before the loco comes to a halt. Nothing remarkable in that? Maybe, but mine does it all within SIX feet, well within your 16ft . You can have a go at driving it yourself; most people manage it on the first or second attempt, so it's not that hard. I use ZIMO sound decoders. I have not experienced this white noise with ZIMO when there should be silence, but I have heard it on other leading brands. This might just be due to my hearing, though. I have often thought a scientific comparison would be more meaningful; oscilloscopes and such to take the 'human' element out of the equation, but I simply don't have the time to organise it. I hope to meet you at Spalding, Kind regards, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Ian, If you do make it to Spalding I feel sure you will find time at Paul's clinic very rewarding. I have just acquired one of "his" A4s after attending his clinic at Peterborough and its performance is just so much better than my other steam locos. One thing I have noticed is that the slow running (and I mean really creeping) is so much better than those with manufacturer-fitted sound. This is probably due (at least in part) to the Zimo decoder being of better quality than those fitted by the loco manufacturers. Your interest appears to be diesels and Paul's magic has been worked there too. Harold. Harold, Your post came in as I was typing my response. Thank you for your supportive comments (my cheque's in the post, ha ha). Will you be at Spalding? Kind regards, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 One final question if I may - in all the locos mentioned above, when the volume is turned right down, (or perhaps when the loco is ending its engine shutdown sequence), I can always hear "white noise" from the speaker - is this the same for every sound loco? I don't hear anything from my stereo system when the sound inputs aren't present. Kind regards. Ian Ian, Just read this bit again. Your silent stereo with no sound input is not the same scenario as very low volume, either on your stereo or loco decoders. The 8 bit compressed soundused in most decoders is the main culprit when sounds fade out at the end of a sound sample. much will depend upon the type of sound being faded. I was refering to continuous white noise from a leading brand which some people have posted about on this forum. This is the type that I haven't heard on ZIMO decoders. Sorry if my wires were crossed. Kind regards, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Ian, Just read this bit again. Your silent stereo with no sound input is not the same scenario as very low volume, either on your stereo or loco decoders. The 8 bit compressed soundused in most decoders is the main culprit when sounds fade out at the end of a sound sample. much will depend upon the type of sound being faded. I was refering to continuous white noise from a leading brand which some people have posted about on this forum. This is the type that I haven't heard on ZIMO decoders. Sorry if my wires were crossed. Kind regards, Paul Pauls projects are excellent and to be recommended, its also worth considering the Legomanbiffo projects, also available at Spalding from the www.dckits-devideos.co.uk stand. The Youtube clips on this website will give you an idea of whats available and the quality. Charlie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ia909 Posted November 3, 2012 Author Share Posted November 3, 2012 Thanks again to all for the information and advice. I shall certainly try to make Spalding as I'd like to discuss options further; that Mrs ia909 will be flexing her credit card in the outlet shops is also a bonus! Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tractor_37260 Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 I'd like to model Scotland and am looking at Bachmann's sound-equipped 37 417 "Highland Region" (model 32-377DS) or the silent 37 506 (model 32-387) and having sound added by one of the well-known traders such as Howes, Coastal, Digitrains, Olivias etc. My questions are firstly, which decoder does 37 417 loco have, (i think it might be a LokSound 3.5 or 4), and secondly, (and in particular if "417" has the older 3.5 decoder), would I be better buying a non-sound loco and having custom sound added? Ian Hi Ian 37 417 comes factory fitted with a Loksound V4, although I suspect the earlier V3.5 files have been used on it. I'd suggest if your buying this loco you get the sound decoder reblown with "legomanbiffo" sound files avail via DC Kits http://www.dckits-devideos.co.uk/shop/dcc_digital_loco_sounds/ this will make a huge improvement to the factory sounds and driveability of the loco. A better quality speaker will make the most of it. Another option is to purchase a non sound fitted loco ie 37 506 etc and fit a Zimo Digitrains sound decoder and speaker, this comes with "pauliebanger's" custom sounds. This decoder not only has both 37/0 +37/4 sound files but it also includes a fully manual engine notching option, it's also great value, being cheaper than a Lok 4. There are a number of Youtube clips avail that will give you an idea of the differences between the "legomanbiffo" Lok 4 and the Digitrains Zimo version. Although not as good as hearing them in the "flesh" it's a good starting point. For many, these are the 2 best option 37 sound files presently available. HTH Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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