K22 Brakes

[Alan Higgi]

I have just acquired a K22 kit. Some vehicles lasted until Dec 1962. The latest photo I can find is 1955 and shows the BGs in Crimson and Cream. Can some one point me in the direction of a later shot. I suppose they made maroon?

[Miss Prism]

Is that 1955 photo in a book?

[Coach bogie]

Some vehicles lasted until Dec 1962.

 

Some lasted much longer with 1145 withdrawn in 1973, 1150 in 1981 & 261 in 1982.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

I have placed the same response same in the duplicate listing.

[Alan Higgi]

Is that 1955 photo in a book?

The only Photos I can find are in J H Russell's books (GW Coaches & the Appendix vol 2) All are early 1950s. I believe 2 of the class are preserved but I have no details and it is likely that these were latterly converted into service vehicles. I usually find details in the background of a photo of something else but not here!

Edited November 4, 2012 by Alan Higgi

[Taz]

Hi Alan,

 

Not sure if this helps, but there is a picture of a toplight brake in Great Western Steam in the West Country by Bradford Barton.

On page 43 there is a picture of a Pannier hauling a toplight brake, a siphon G, a BR GUV and a Toad. It's dated March 1961 and the toplight is single colour with lining. Although its black and white I'm 99.9% certain that it's maroon.

Unfortuantely I'm not 100% but I think it is a K22. I'd say it's definately a 57' vehicle but unfortunately they had the same window layout as the similar K34s. But comparing it against pictures in the Russell books I would say it is a K22 as the K34s had their battery boxes mounted further in. The K22s battery boxes were mounted closer to the bogies and this seems to match that in the photo.

[bubbles2]

Steam Days Feb 2002, centre page has a pic of PT No 8764 at Southall shunting a clean, maroon K22 on 27th Sept 1959....... at least it looks like a K22 to me, can't quit make out the number.

[Alan Higgi]

Steam Days Feb 2002, centre page has a pic of PT No 8764 at Southall shunting a clean, maroon K22 on 27th Sept 1959....... at least it looks like a K22 to me, can't quit make out the number.

Great I will ask around. Can I be cheeky and ask if it is lined? Thanks Alan

[Alan Higgi]

Hi Alan,

 

Not sure if this helps, but there is a picture of a toplight brake in Great Western Steam in the West Country by Bradford Barton.

On page 43 there is a picture of a Pannier hauling a toplight brake, a siphon G, a BR GUV and a Toad. It's dated March 1961 and the toplight is single colour with lining. Although its black and white I'm 99.9% certain that it's maroon.

Unfortuantely I'm not 100% but I think it is a K22. I'd say it's definately a 57' vehicle but unfortunately they had the same window layout as the similar K34s. But comparing it against pictures in the Russell books I would say it is a K22 as the K34s had their battery boxes mounted further in. The K22s battery boxes were mounted closer to the bogies and this seems to match that in the photo.

Many Thanks. It does help. What I was hoping for - lined maroon. I can get this book from the library.

[bubbles2]

Great I will ask around. Can I be cheeky and ask if it is lined? Thanks Alan

 

Yes lined.

[Miss Prism]

With at least seven livery variants over the near 50 year lifespan, it is slightly amazing the K22 never made it as an RTR offering.

[Coach bogie]

With at least seven livery variants over the near 50 year lifespan, it is slightly amazing the K22 never made it as an RTR offering.

 

It was available as an etched kit from the early 1970's, duplicated by Haye Developments,Tony Hammond, Trevor Charlton and in plastic from Mailcoach/Coopercraft. I imagine this would put off the big two.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Karhedron]

With at least seven livery variants over the near 50 year lifespan, it is slightly amazing the K22 never made it as an RTR offering.

And there is a preserved example for easy laser-scanning. I guess that manufacturers are nervous of going for pre-grouping stock, even if it was long-lived. I have to say that toplight stock is an obvious candidate though.

[Coach bogie]

I have to say that toplight stock is an obvious candidate though.

 

It has been covered elswhere but toplight stock, though highly desireable is a nightmare for any manufacturer as the bodies were altered so much over the long lives. The K22's are probably the least modified as the three preserved examples, 261, 1145 & 1150 show. Recently I was shown the etch of a D56 toplight brake third for a private commision based on one vehicle on one date in the 1950''s with toplights plates over, replacement doors to certain compartments, various underframe mods etc. Panelled toplights are even worse with odd panel replacements, various bogie types etc.

 

From memory you are a 2mm modeller. Most of the toplights, panelled and steel sided, are available as sides only from Worsley works, including the K22

 

http://www.worsleyworks.co.uk/2mm/2mm_GWR_Coaches.htm

 

NIce thought though.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[richbrummitt]

It has been covered elswhere but toplight stock, though highly desireable is a nightmare for any manufacturer as the bodies were altered so much over the long lives.

 

Whilst this is true I don't see why it would stop them when they are used to pedaling a few almost correct for one livery mouldings in some inappropriate decorations.

 

From memory you are a 2mm modeller. Most of the toplights, panelled and steel sided, are available as sides only from Worsley works, including the K22.

 

Or there are the ex-Ultima kits with pre-printed sides available from etched pixels. I thought from memory that I had a K22 once but it seems that it was most likely an earlier diagram.

[Alan Higgi]

Looks like there are a couple of examples within 20 miles of me!

1. GWR 1145 Churchward toplight 'Snake C' Passenger Brake built 1922

2. GWR 261 Churchward toplight 'Snake C' Passenger Brake built 19221.

 

So a bit of investigation and I am building!

 

Thanks to everybody that posted.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Alan Higgi

[Taz]

Alan,you have a pm.

[Clearwater]

On 04/11/2012 at 06:08, Coach bogie said:

 

Some lasted much longer with 1145 withdrawn in 1973, 1150 in 1981 & 261 in 1982.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

I have placed the same response same in the duplicate listing.

to revive an old thread, are there any photos of these coaches in the years leading up to their withdrawal?

 

David

[37079]

Does anyone have a view on whether these were ever plain crimson or would they have been crimson and cream in early BR days? Struggling to find photographic evidence…

 

Mike

[The Johnster]

The OP mentions a 1955 photo of one in crimson/cream, but I would imagine plain crimson examples could be found, and plain unlined maroon for any repainted between 1956 and 1959.  Assuming your time period is 1955 or thereabouts, though, I would opt for crimson/cream based on the OP’s information until better information comes to light.  I suspect gangwayed brake vehicles got crimson/cream, but cannot state this to be a fact. 
 

There is then the question of the running number prefixes and suffixes; W prefixes for any coach in a BR livery, but suffixes were not used until the introduction of the BR standard mk1 stock in 1950 to prevent duplicate numbers.  The prefix indicated the region the coach was allocated to, and the suffix that responsible for maintenance and overhaul.  The suffixes must have taken some time to apply, and a 1955 vehicle might well not have them. 

[bécasse]

2 hours ago, The Johnster said:

The OP mentions a 1955 photo of one in crimson/cream, but I would imagine plain crimson examples could be found, and plain unlined maroon for any repainted between 1956 and 1959.  Assuming your time period is 1955 or thereabouts, though, I would opt for crimson/cream based on the OP’s information until better information comes to light.  I suspect gangwayed brake vehicles got crimson/cream, but cannot state this to be a fact. 
 

There is then the question of the running number prefixes and suffixes; W prefixes for any coach in a BR livery, but suffixes were not used until the introduction of the BR standard mk1 stock in 1950 to prevent duplicate numbers.  The prefix indicated the region the coach was allocated to, and the suffix that responsible for maintenance and overhaul.  The suffixes must have taken some time to apply, and a 1955 vehicle might well not have them. 

There cannot have been a general rule that gangwayed full brakes received crimson and cream as some MkI gangwayed full brakes were turned out in plain crimson (and others in crimson and cream, of course).

 

IIRC suffixes appeared almost simultaneously with the move of the number from the LH end of the vehicle side (as viewed) to the RH end. I would have expected that by 1955, if not earlier, it would have been unusual to come across a vehicle in service (as opposed to stored) which still had an unsuffixed number at the LH end.