Jol Wilkinson Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 1 hour ago, polybear said: It's a real shame that kits such as this disappear forever (I'm assuming no-one still markets it - perhaps under a different label?) A search for George Allen railway model kits turns up very little but it does appear that they were designed by George Pring. His name then turns up in connection with Kemilway. That footbridge kit doesn't appear to have been taken over by any other kit producer, although there seem to be several laser cut wooden ones on offer. 41 minutes ago, zr2498 said: Agree. At least the designs should be sent to a repository of some kind, and either be available on request or held until a new business opportunity arises. That is probably not really practical. Setting up such a repository would rely on the goodwill of the original designer/manufacturer in giving the artwork, designs or tooling away. Product ranges have disappeared because the owner wouldn't sell them, they became superseded by newer and possibly better kits/model, the original owner passed away and his offspring didn't know what to do with it (or thought it was worth a lot more thn it was) and so on. Some ranges pass into new hands but the new owner loses interest, can't cope with re-organising and re-producing products (Coopercraft) and a variety of other reasons. On occasion pride has overridden common sense and a range of products has simply disappeared. Fortunately some existing producers have taken over other ranges as the opportunity arose, including PPP, Wizard, Nucast Partners, London Road Models. Others have changed hands - eg. SEF/Stevenson Carriages which are now part of Squires. Older etched kits may will have been hand drawn and the original artwork may not still exist. It is possible that the etched tooling might, possibly with the etcher used to produce the kit components, but after a long time it is likely that they could have been scrapped. Some ranges are very badly documented (the original owner kept it all in their head) that resurrecting them is a very difficult task. Finally, such a repository would need organising and funding. Any volunteers? 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium CF MRC Posted November 22, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2021 On Chiltern Green we ran a Midland Compound (converted from a Peco Jubilee- everything was in those days) which had a five wheel tender. The middle wheel (non visible side) worked better that way… Tim 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted November 22, 2021 Share Posted November 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, CF MRC said: On Chiltern Green we ran a Midland Compound (converted from a Peco Jubilee- everything was in those days) which had a five wheel tender. The middle wheel (non visible side) worked better that way… Tim The late Ray Earl, who produced several very nice EM exhibition layouts (I think one was called Ambridge), sometimes only completed the viewer's side of his models, including carriages as well as buildings. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PMP Posted November 22, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2021 41 minutes ago, Jol Wilkinson said: A search for George Allen railway model kits turns up very little but it does appear that they were designed by George Pring. His name then turns up in connection with Kemilway. That footbridge kit doesn't appear to have been taken over by any other kit producer, although there seem to be several laser cut wooden ones on offer. One of the reasons that the 4mm versions of Kemilway finished was copyright piracy, and the footbridge was one of those designs that was copied. I believe they tried taking a legal route but it didn’t resolve the issues. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dave John Posted November 22, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2021 Hi Tony, just a wild guess, but there is something about the 4 wheel breakdown coach that suggests Drummond for the NBR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted November 22, 2021 Author Share Posted November 22, 2021 Just now, Dave John said: Hi Tony, just a wild guess, but there is something about the 4 wheel breakdown coach that suggests Drummond for the NBR. I think you're right Dave, I acquired it, part-built from the estate of a deceased modeller. It's certainly etched brass, but the manufacturer's name is etched in what's best described as 'fancy handwriting', which makes it impossible to discern. I finished it. It is ex-NB. Whether it would have appeared in an engineers' train so far south and as late as 1958 is open to conjecture, but (I think) it looks the part. Regards, Tony. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dave John Posted November 22, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 22, 2021 Interesting Tony. I suspect it is a Decent Models Kit by John Boyle. The etch had parts for both the NB and CR versions. Main difference was the ends and roof shape. When Drummond moved from the NB to the CR he took quite a large roll of drawings with him, so there are a lot of similarities for stock of that period. I'd agree, it does look the part so enjoy what is actually a quite rare kit. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted November 23, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, Tony Wright said: The footbridge was made by Dave Scott from a George Allen kit of many, many moons ago. It's all-soldered, even if in the instructions gluing was recommended for some of the parts. George Alan kits appeared at about the same time as the first bottles of superglue in non-industrial sizes (IS-12, then IS-150). Superglue was recommended for these early etched kits, presumably to reduce the risk of distortion. Edited November 23, 2021 by St Enodoc speling 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted November 23, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 23, 2021 5 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said: The late Ray Earl, who produced several very nice EM exhibition layouts (I think one was called Ambridge), sometimes only completed the viewer's side of his models, including carriages as well as buildings. Ray and Cida didn't always put all the bits of rail in their points either! The non-viewing side of their rolling stock was labelled "Parcels" or whatever in large letters. Very much the theatrical approach, to great effect. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Sim Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 13 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Good evening Roger, Do you remember this ghastly thing? Despite its being painted in LNER condition, it turns out it's a GWR bogie van. What to do with it? Throw it away? Give it away? Or what? Having learned that it was ex-GWR, I looked in Russell's book and found the diagram. Now, this is bound to send all Heaven into a rage, but this actual van ended up in departmental service. Yes, it was much-modified, but it lasted until the mid-'50s. So a rub-down, repaint, lowering the body (it rode on stilts!) and a touch of weathering, and there you are. It's just the type of van which might have be seen in engineers' service, as part of a breakdown train. Is it accurate? Highly-unlikely, but could something like this 'trick the eye'? Bytham's engineers' train is made up (in part) of a Mousa Models ex GNR non-gangwayed Brake Third and a pre-Grouping four-wheeler of unknown parentage. John Isherwood very kindly made me some suitable transfers (thanks again, John), and Richard Wilson weathered the vehicles for me. Prior to their being weathered, I set up a breakdown train of sorts. I really have no idea if any of the models I've shown are really that accurate. However, they 'look the part', and out of all the marvellous guests I've had visit LB, nobody has ever told me they're wrong. Regards, Tony. Ahem… they’re wrong! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 6 hours ago, St Enodoc said: George Alan kits appeared at about the same time as the first bottles of superglue in non-industrial sizes (IS-12, then IS-150). Superglue was recommended for these early etched kits, presumably to reduce the risk of distortion. Thanks for the clarification of the name, John, Alan, Allan, Allen, such are the different spellings of a popular name. Frequently, when folk cite their abcs of yore, they'll state Ian Allen (I've even seen it in print) instead of Allan. Though nothing to do with the publisher of countless trainspotting 'bibles', I've also frequently seen in print the description 'Beyer Garrett' to describe a type of articulated locomotive. Regards, Tony. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 12 hours ago, Jol Wilkinson said: The late Ray Earl, who produced several very nice EM exhibition layouts (I think one was called Ambridge), sometimes only completed the viewer's side of his models, including carriages as well as buildings. Good morning Jol, The late, great architectural modeller, Allan Downes, only modelled elevations of buildings which could be seen by the viewing public. On occasions, when plonking the camera to get a shot along, say, a street he'd made, one side would just be blank cardboard! Regards, Tony. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Jesse Sim said: Ahem… they’re wrong! Good morning Jesse, Please, show me the evidence which shows that they (the vehicles in the train) are wrong. Regards, Tony. Edited November 23, 2021 by Tony Wright to add something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted November 23, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 23, 2021 14 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Good evening Roger, Do you remember this ghastly thing? Despite its being painted in LNER condition, it turns out it's a GWR bogie van. What to do with it? Throw it away? Give it away? Or what? Having learned that it was ex-GWR, I looked in Russell's book and found the diagram. Now, this is bound to send all Heaven into a rage, but this actual van ended up in departmental service. Yes, it was much-modified, but it lasted until the mid-'50s. So a rub-down, repaint, lowering the body (it rode on stilts!) and a touch of weathering, and there you are. It's just the type of van which might have be seen in engineers' service, as part of a breakdown train. Is it accurate? Highly-unlikely, but could something like this 'trick the eye'? Bytham's engineers' train is made up (in part) of a Mousa Models ex GNR non-gangwayed Brake Third and a pre-Grouping four-wheeler of unknown parentage. John Isherwood very kindly made me some suitable transfers (thanks again, John), and Richard Wilson weathered the vehicles for me. Prior to their being weathered, I set up a breakdown train of sorts. I really have no idea if any of the models I've shown are really that accurate. However, they 'look the part', and out of all the marvellous guests I've had visit LB, nobody has ever told me they're wrong. Regards, Tony. Re: Items of questionable origin but 'looking the part', I have a modified RTR breakdown train, posted here for comparison. In need of weathering, but repainted and lettered using a set of transfers available from Fox's. This is probably the 'lazy man's' equivalent! These are otherwise unmodified models, comprising Bachmann's Ransome & Rapier crane, bogie well wagon, Hornby's generic 4-wheel brake, and Hornby's GWR clerestory brake. An open wagon and box van have since completed the train. Phil. 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 31 minutes ago, Chamby said: Re: Items of questionable origin but 'looking the part', I have a modified RTR breakdown train, posted here for comparison. In need of weathering, but repainted and lettered using a set of transfers available from Fox's. This is probably the 'lazy man's' equivalent! These are otherwise unmodified models, comprising Bachmann's Ransome & Rapier crane, bogie well wagon, Hornby's generic 4-wheel brake, and Hornby's GWR clerestory brake. An open wagon and box van have since completed the train. Phil. Thanks Phil, The whole thing 'looks the part'. Regards, Tony. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Woodcock29 Posted November 23, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted November 23, 2021 Good morning Tony I thought it was time I showed you what I've been up to recently. A D3 from a Premier kit with a severely kitbashed/scratch tender using the sides and rear from a Nucast GN B Type tender. The equal spaced tender frames are from Graeme King as are the tool boxes, the water filler box and the smokebox door (from Graeem's J6 ). The loco is awaiting the start of painting during which the boiler bands will be applied and brakes fitted. Plus the beginnings of a B8 using a Graeme King resin boiler and custom etches (body parts in the photo and the chassis) I had done locally here in South Australia about 10 years ago from drawings I did at the time. The boiler is only placed in position as are the PDK D11/1 chimney and dome. The bogie is one of Mike Edge's etches. The cab roof is from an old Ks B2 I picked up for a song which was the whole reason I started to plan this build as initially I intended to use the Ks boiler. I plan on using a Bachmann tender with some modifications. More detail on these can be found at: https://www.lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14225&p=143731#p143731 Andrew 21 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollar Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 15 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Good evening Roger, Do you remember this ghastly thing? Despite its being painted in LNER condition, it turns out it's a GWR bogie van. What to do with it? Throw it away? Give it away? Or what? Having learned that it was ex-GWR, I looked in Russell's book and found the diagram. Now, this is bound to send all Heaven into a rage, but this actual van ended up in departmental service. Yes, it was much-modified, but it lasted until the mid-'50s. So a rub-down, repaint, lowering the body (it rode on stilts!) and a touch of weathering, and there you are. It's just the type of van which might have be seen in engineers' service, as part of a breakdown train. Is it accurate? Highly-unlikely, but could something like this 'trick the eye'? Bytham's engineers' train is made up (in part) of a Mousa Models ex GNR non-gangwayed Brake Third and a pre-Grouping four-wheeler of unknown parentage. John Isherwood very kindly made me some suitable transfers (thanks again, John), and Richard Wilson weathered the vehicles for me. Prior to their being weathered, I set up a breakdown train of sorts. I really have no idea if any of the models I've shown are really that accurate. However, they 'look the part', and out of all the marvellous guests I've had visit LB, nobody has ever told me they're wrong. Regards, Tony. With the excellent weathering, it looks great, and very credible. Just a thought. Nothing shouts out GWR as loudly as those G-shaped grab handles. Easy to cut off and replace with something more local, which only leaves the signature lookout ducket of course. Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted November 23, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 23, 2021 19 minutes ago, Hollar said: With the excellent weathering, it looks great, and very credible. Just a thought. Nothing shouts out GWR as loudly as those G-shaped grab handles. Easy to cut off and replace with something more local, which only leaves the signature lookout ducket of course. Tony And a high proportion of coaches/NPCCS converted for departmental use lost their duckets in the process. John 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 17 hours ago, Tony Wright said: Good evening Roger, Do you remember this ghastly thing? Despite its being painted in LNER condition, it turns out it's a GWR bogie van. What to do with it? Throw it away? Give it away? Or what? Having learned that it was ex-GWR, I looked in Russell's book and found the diagram. Now, this is bound to send all Heaven into a rage, but this actual van ended up in departmental service. Yes, it was much-modified, but it lasted until the mid-'50s. So a rub-down, repaint, lowering the body (it rode on stilts!) and a touch of weathering, and there you are. It's just the type of van which might have be seen in engineers' service, as part of a breakdown train. Is it accurate? Highly-unlikely, but could something like this 'trick the eye'? Bytham's engineers' train is made up (in part) of a Mousa Models ex GNR non-gangwayed Brake Third and a pre-Grouping four-wheeler of unknown parentage. John Isherwood very kindly made me some suitable transfers (thanks again, John), and Richard Wilson weathered the vehicles for me. Prior to their being weathered, I set up a breakdown train of sorts. I really have no idea if any of the models I've shown are really that accurate. However, they 'look the part', and out of all the marvellous guests I've had visit LB, nobody has ever told me they're wrong. Regards, Tony. Good afternoon Tony, Perhaps their just more polite than I, or just haven't got a clue. As flag waver for the unpopular opinion, i.e. copy the real thing. Your 'Departmental' train has never made much sense to me, it comes across as a rather interesting if random collection of vehicles. What is it, whats it doing, whats its job? Is it a break down train, a ballast train, or an odd mix of the two? It has a bit of sand, a bit of ballast and a couple of made up vehicles, a mix of revenue and departmental stock and lots of space for tools. I cant say the new ex GWR full brake adds anything, except more confusion. I'm not sure if the livery is supposed to be the late departmental red, or BR crimson lake? Wouldn't the former be anachronistic for your time period? The latter would explain the ''return empty to the western region'' legend. Presumably it is a unbranded stores van, delivering more tools from Swindon works to a random departmental train on the East coast mainline? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headstock Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 3 hours ago, Chamby said: Re: Items of questionable origin but 'looking the part', I have a modified RTR breakdown train, posted here for comparison. In need of weathering, but repainted and lettered using a set of transfers available from Fox's. This is probably the 'lazy man's' equivalent! These are otherwise unmodified models, comprising Bachmann's Ransome & Rapier crane, bogie well wagon, Hornby's generic 4-wheel brake, and Hornby's GWR clerestory brake. An open wagon and box van have since completed the train. Phil. Good morning Phil, I have photographs and even moving images of a couple of the breakdown trains operating in your area. No they didn't use ex GWR clerestory carriages, two wheelers, GWR Crocodiles or the Bachmann breakdown Crain. The above is understandable, given the limitations that you have to work under with RTR. The major improvement that I would suggest, would be the repainting of the anachronistic livery for your chosen time period of 1949. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted November 23, 2021 Author Share Posted November 23, 2021 25 minutes ago, Headstock said: Good afternoon Tony, Perhaps their just more polite than I, or just haven't got a clue. As flag waver for the unpopular opinion, i.e. copy the real thing. Your 'Departmental' train has never made much sense to me, it comes across as a rather interesting if random collection of vehicles. What is it, whats it doing, whats its job? Is it a break down train, a ballast train, or an odd mix of the two? It has a bit of sand, a bit of ballast and a couple of made up vehicles, a mix of revenue and departmental stock and lots of space for tools. I cant say the new ex GWR full brake adds anything, except more confusion. I'm not sure if the livery is supposed to be the late departmental red, or BR crimson lake? Wouldn't the former be anachronistic for your time period? The latter would explain the ''return empty to the western region'' legend. Presumably it is a unbranded stores van, delivering more tools from Swindon works to a random departmental train on the East coast mainline? Good afternoon Andrew, I think the best thing will be to completely remove the train from Bytham. I've never claimed it was accurate; just based on the occasional photograph of engineers' trains here and there. 'Perhaps their (sic) just more polite than I, or just haven't got a clue'. Who knows? As for the WR van in question, perhaps I really should have thrown it away! Regards, Tony. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted November 23, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Headstock said: Good morning Phil, I have photographs and even moving images of a couple of the breakdown trains operating in your area. No they didn't use ex GWR clerestory carriages, two wheelers, GWR Crocodiles or the Bachmann breakdown Crain. The above is understandable, given the limitations that you have to work under with RTR. The major improvement that I would suggest, would be the repainting of the anachronistic livery for your chosen time period of 1949. Good afternoon, Andrew. You are absolutely right of course, though perhaps I should have pointed out that this particular train does most of its running on our club layout, depicting the WR in west London. So it is not photographed in its usual habitat! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbishop Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 1 hour ago, Headstock said: Good morning Phil, I have photographs and even moving images of a couple of the breakdown trains operating in your area. No they didn't use ex GWR clerestory carriages, two wheelers, GWR Crocodiles or the Bachmann breakdown Crain. The above is understandable, given the limitations that you have to work under with RTR. The major improvement that I would suggest, would be the repainting of the anachronistic livery for your chosen time period of 1949. I thought only Rowland Emmett used two wheelers. Bill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Popular Post cctransuk Posted November 23, 2021 RMweb Premium Popular Post Share Posted November 23, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Tony Wright said: I think the best thing will be to completely remove the train from Bytham. Whilst having an interest in your Engineers' vehicles, (insomuch as I supplied the transfers), I would strongly encourage you NOT to take this drastic course of action. The vehicles in question are very characteristic of the kind of miscellaneous, superannuated stock that populated the ends of nonedescript sidings, all over the country. Remember - AT THE TIME - we had little or no idea what purpose they served, beyond the fading inscriptions that they sometimes carried. With the benefit of over half a century of research and study, it is now possible to identify a proportion of these subjects and to compile some form of history of their duties in semi-retirement. Nonetheless, they were always something of a mystery and consequently added considerably to the fascination of the more off-beat aspects of the railway scene. So - unless you are obsessional about running the 'correct' departmental formations - whatever they might or might not have been - I would stick with what you have. Those 'knowledgeable' souls who can pick holes in your service stock and, more to the point, can tell you what such a train at that location on that date should comprise of, are few and far between; (thank heavens) ! John Isherwood. Edited November 23, 2021 by cctransuk 11 22 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete55 Posted November 23, 2021 Share Posted November 23, 2021 Good afternoon Tony, I agree totally with Cctransuk above. Your Engineers train looks very much Eastern Region flavour in my opinion too, and it is something unique that you built, so why remove it? If someone can provide photographic evidence of something completely different, then perhaps fair enough to remove. I'm fairly confident I know what Mr Jackson may well have said to Mt Headstock's contribution! Pete 3 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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