Wright writes.....

[sandra]

On 15/01/2023 at 13:13, t-b-g said:

I have had a chat with John Houlden about Tudor Minstrel and can shed some light on the matter. He can't remember all the details but he recalls that it was built in OO by a friend who had died. Roy always referred to him as "chippy" and I am not sure I ever knew his real name. He had helped Roy with the initial construction of the baseboards and had done some work in the railway room. He passed away suddenly in the shed.

 

Roy wanted something to remember him by on the layout so he either converted it to EM or more likely built a new mechanism.

 

Roy knew it was wrong for Retfrod in 1957 in that condition but kept it for sentimental reasons. John is not sure if it came to Roy already weathered or if the weathering was done after it became his perhaps because the livery and lining wasn't the best but he can't recall seeing it running in a clean condition.

 

So my vote would be for leaving it alone too.

I have heard that story before indeed it may have been Roy who told me it. However the story I heard related to a different locomotive. 
 

For many years there was a V2 on Retford which was in LNER livery, this is a photo of it.The story I was told was that this was a memorial locomotive for Chippy as he was an LNER fan. I don’t know who built it although it may have been Roy.

 

This V2 was probably made from a Nucast kit and whilst this kit does have its limitations, the model has been beautifully painted by someone and I felt it would be a shame to repaint it into BR livery particularly if it was a memorial locomotive. It also runs very well but it is out of period so it only sees occasional use.

[pete55]

40 minutes ago, sandra said:

I have heard that story before indeed it may have been Roy who told me it. However the story I heard related to a different locomotive. 
 

For many years there was a V2 on Retford which was in LNER livery, this is a photo of it.The story I was told was that this was a memorial locomotive for Chippy as he was an LNER fan. I don’t know who built it although it may have been Roy.

 

This V2 was probably made from a Nucast kit and whilst this kit does have its limitations, the model has been beautifully painted by someone and I felt it would be a shame to repaint it into BR livery particularly if it was a memorial locomotive. It also runs very well but it is out of period so it only sees occasional use.

 

I didn't think it was a Chippy engine, but it certainly was given to Roy by someone. The painting of it was so good, Roy wouldn't have it repainted into a more apt BR livery. 

Maybe T-B-G or some of the other Retford mob has a clue.

 

Pete

[robertcwp]

On the topic of layouts, Westford was not modelled on a real place but was very impressive and a layout I would go the extra mile to see. In its full form, it was nearly 60’ long. I saw it at the STEAM Museum in Swindon where it was in front of Caerphilly Castle and similar in length. 

[Dunsignalling]

24 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

On the topic of layouts, Westford was not modelled on a real place but was very impressive and a layout I would go the extra mile to see. In its full form, it was nearly 60’ long. I saw it at the STEAM Museum in Swindon where it was in front of Caerphilly Castle and similar in length. 

 

It featured a lot of creative and very well-executed r-t-r stock conversions too.

 

[t-b-g]

9 hours ago, sandra said:

I have heard that story before indeed it may have been Roy who told me it. However the story I heard related to a different locomotive. 
 

For many years there was a V2 on Retford which was in LNER livery, this is a photo of it.The story I was told was that this was a memorial locomotive for Chippy as he was an LNER fan. I don’t know who built it although it may have been Roy.

 

This V2 was probably made from a Nucast kit and whilst this kit does have its limitations, the model has been beautifully painted by someone and I felt it would be a shame to repaint it into BR livery particularly if it was a memorial locomotive. It also runs very well but it is out of period so it only sees occasional use.

 

There was so much going on with Roy and Retford and locos would appear from drawers where they had been stashed for years awaiting attention. Over the 15 plus years I went regularly, I lost count and lost track of all the individual locos, where they were from and their backstories.

 

Which is why I asked others rather than relied on my own memory when considering Tudor Minstrel. Locos would come and go on Roy's bench, sometimes for him and sometimes for others. 

 

My vague memory of the LNER Green V2 was that it was built and painted by somebody else. The first time I saw it, I recall he said he had been given it with a view to it being repainted in BR colours, from somebody who was still around (again, I can't remember who). I remember Roy showing it to me just after it had arrived and saying that he thought it was just too nicely painted to strip it down or cover it up, so he was going to leave it alone.

 

I didn't get involved until some time after poor "Chippy" passed away so if the V2 arrived while I was there, it may have come from somebody else.

 

Or it may have been stashed in a drawer for years!

 

One of the "Mob" might know for sure but some of these events were very brief conversations 20 years ago with me, so I am a bit hazy on such things.

 

Edit to add: Just seen Pete's post above. That pretty much matches what I recall.

Edited January 17, 2023 by t-b-g
To add content

[Barry Ten]

3 hours ago, robertcwp said:

On the topic of layouts, Westford was not modelled on a real place but was very impressive and a layout I would go the extra mile to see. In its full form, it was nearly 60’ long. I saw it at the STEAM Museum in Swindon where it was in front of Caerphilly Castle and similar in length. 

 

It was my favorite layout by a long mile after I saw it at one of the exhibitions in the Netherlands, probably Eurospoor in 2001. I saw it on a few more occasions over the next ten years, including with the extension.

[Tony Wright]

12 hours ago, robertcwp said:

On the topic of layouts, Westford was not modelled on a real place but was very impressive and a layout I would go the extra mile to see. In its full form, it was nearly 60’ long. I saw it at the STEAM Museum in Swindon where it was in front of Caerphilly Castle and similar in length. 

Good evening Robert,

 

I photographed Westford in Taunton at the turn of the century. 

 

With BRM celebrating its up-coming 30th birthday, I've been asked to dig through my files and pick (at least) 30 layouts to feature (in the mag and online) which I've photographed which have particularly impressed me. Westford is one, though I hope I can find my copies of the transparencies.

 

Sadly, with an office clear-out a decade ago, much photographic material was discarded. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[LNER4479]

41 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

With BRM celebrating its up-coming 30th birthday, I've been asked to dig through my files and pick (at least) 30 layouts to feature (in the mag and online) which I've photographed which have particularly impressed me.

Hope Tebay is one of them, Tony? Aside from my obvious interest, I always thought of that layout as the BRM 'launch layout'. That's what grabbed my attention when I first saw BRM on the WH Smith shelf 30 years ago ...

[robertcwp]

Another couple of notable layouts: Alton (model of a real location), Adavoyle (inspired by a real location but not modelled on it - Northern Ireland).

[Tony Wright]

41 minutes ago, LNER4479 said:

Hope Tebay is one of them, Tony? Aside from my obvious interest, I always thought of that layout as the BRM 'launch layout'. That's what grabbed my attention when I first saw BRM on the WH Smith shelf 30 years ago ...

Tebay is one Graham,

 

I have the transparencies!

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

40 minutes ago, robertcwp said:

Another couple of notable layouts: Alton (model of a real location), Adavoyle (inspired by a real location but not modelled on it - Northern Ireland).

I have the Adavoyle pictures Robert.

 

Some on transparency (Adavoyle was on the cusp of my getting a decent digital camera), and some.....................

 

 

Taken digitally.

 

Another choice of mine will be...........

 

 

Dainton Summit in O Gauge.

 

The hardest part will be choosing which pictures to submit.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

 

[Adam88]

I trust you have the late Tom Harland's Bramblewick on your list.  It was beautifully modelled closely based on a real location, had pre-grouping elegance and many other fine qualities.

[chris45lsw]

On 13/01/2023 at 13:21, robertcwp said:

No SR hauled passenger stock carried blue/grey but there were SR-designed carriages that carried the livery, such as TPO vans and some departmental stock and lots of EMUs with SR-design bodywork, mostly 2 and 4 EPB units.

 

Three Hawksworth SKs carried blue/grey. There are photos around of them - one in 'Profile of the Warships' shows all three.

Two Ambulance Cars, S7920 & 7923S, converted from SR Maunsell unclassed open brakes in 1959 carried blue and grey.

 

Chris KT

[robertcwp]

5 hours ago, chris45lsw said:

Two Ambulance Cars, S7920 & 7923S, converted from SR Maunsell unclassed open brakes in 1959 carried blue and grey.

 

Chris KT

I would not count them as ordinary passenger stock though. 

[Coach bogie]

On 13/01/2023 at 23:21, robertcwp said:

 

 

Three Hawksworth SKs carried blue/grey. There are photos around of them - one in 'Profile of the Warships' shows all three.

I used to pass this pair of Hawksworth full brakes in all over rail blue in the 1990's in Newcastle upon Tyne. A couple of miles away there were FOUR ex GWR toads in a PW yard.

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, Adam88 said:

I trust you have the late Tom Harland's Bramblewick on your list.  It was beautifully modelled closely based on a real location, had pre-grouping elegance and many other fine qualities.

I have,

 

As intimated, the hardest part will be keeping my list down to 30 layouts representing the three decades of BRM's existence. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

[Tony Wright]

Given the level of expertise on here, may I ask a few questions, please? 

 

Will Hornby's latest development into TT/3mm be compatible with the old Tri-ang TT systems? 

 

Will it be compatible with other TT/3mm systems introduced of late? 

 

Could it stimulate interest in other manufacturers to enter the scale? (A crystal ball question, I know). 

 

I ask the above because I plead ignorance in such matters. I've photographed so few TT/3mm layouts - more in 3mm finescale than TT Gauge - and I've never built/modified anything in the size. 

 

Many thanks in anticipation. 

[gr.king]

Simplest answer: Track standards maybe compatible for 12mm gauge TT3, rest of modelling scale NOT compatible with TT3 because Hornby (Kohler) have decided to now do TT 1:120. I see no way that 3mm:1ft scale models can convincingly stand or run immediately alongside. or mixed up with, 2.5mm scale TT 1:120 models.

[Compound2632]

14 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Given the level of expertise on here, may I ask a few questions, please? 

 

Will Hornby's latest development into TT/3mm be compatible with the old Tri-ang TT systems? 

 

Will it be compatible with other TT/3mm systems introduced of late? 

 

Could it stimulate interest in other manufacturers to enter the scale? (A crystal ball question, I know). 

 

I ask the above because I plead ignorance in such matters. I've photographed so few TT/3mm layouts - more in 3mm finescale than TT Gauge - and I've never built/modified anything in the size. 

 

Many thanks in anticipation. 

 

It's not 3 mm scale but "continental" TT at 1:120, or 2.54 mm/ft. 

 

EDIT: Snap, @gr.king!

 

EDIT: so Hornby's offering is compatible with all other current RTR TT, though these are, I think, the first British outline models in what is otherwise a well-supported scale internationally. What other 3 mm scale systems introduced of late do you have in mind? The stuff that Peco are producing is also 1:120.

 

At the Bracknell exhibition last November, @CloggyDog had a wonderful little Czech layout in TT, with rolling stock from kits that made even a 4 mm scale modeller go green with envy, such is the quality (and low price).

Edited January 18, 2023 by Compound2632

[Denbridge]

24 minutes ago, gr.king said:

Simplest answer: Track standards maybe compatible for 12mm gauge TT3, rest of modelling scale NOT compatible with TT3 because Hornby (Kohler) have decided to now do TT 1:120. I see no way that 3mm:1ft scale models can convincingly stand or run immediately alongside. or mixed up with, 2.5mm scale TT 1:120 models.

The beauty of TT1:120 is that it gives models with a true scale to gauge. A first in British outline rtr?

[gr.king]

2 hours ago, Denbridge said:

The beauty of TT1:120 is that it gives models with a true scale to gauge. A first in British outline rtr?

In principle yes, but looking at what Hornby have offered up for us to see so far, the true scale-to-gauge relationship quite predictably messes up other aspects of "accuracy" because they appear to be trying to make the models reasonably easy to handle and clumsy-owner resistant, rather than true-scale or "finescale". Hence the wheels have big flanges, implying that either they are under-scale diameter over the treads or have exaggerated clearances around them, at least in some cases, possibly upsetting appearances/proportions or requiring raised ride-height. The visible chunkiness of the valve gear joints on the samples of Flying Scotsman also suggests that the valve gear is not wafer-thin, and if the loco is supposed to be capable of going around train-set curves then the combination of necessary side-play in wheel-sets and the no-doubt chunky tread-width must imply that either the width over cylinders is exaggerated or that the rods enter the cylinders well off-centre - or both.

Anyway, this is probably not the place to debate such things. There's a dedicated thread, with plenty of people showing a degree of enthusiasm that I certainly do not share. It seems to me to be a pointless additional option between N and 3mm scale, there being little reason for wanting to run UK and continental stock side by side on most layouts, and the clash between TT120 models and TT3 models is similar in ratio to the discrepancy that would be seen if S scale were placed alongside 4mm scale.

Edited January 18, 2023 by gr.king

[Flying Pig]

8 minutes ago, gr.king said:

In principle yes, but looking at what Hornby have offered up for us to see so far, the true scale-to-gauge relationship quite predictably messes up other aspects of "accuracy" because they appear to be trying to make the models reasonably easy to handle and clumsy-owner resistant, rather than true-scale or "finescale".

 

This has been discussed ad nauseam in the plethora of T:120 threads, but briefly, Hornby's track and wheels appear to be within tolerance for the NEM standards for 12mm gauge, though they may in some cases be at the coarse end. As you suggest, this is by no means finescale; it is a practical rtr system designed to accommodate tight curves and less than perfect track laying.  The knock-ons for compromised dimensions are inevitable.

[Dunsignalling]

5 hours ago, Denbridge said:

The beauty of TT1:120 is that it gives models with a true scale to gauge. A first in British outline rtr?

The track gauge of TT:120 is indeed "true-to-scale", but the need to negotiate train-set curves means that large locos will inevitably be as compromised as their OO equivalents.

 

Just a different set of compromises.

 

John

[t-b-g]

The attached photo turned up on the internet the other day and I have asked (and been given) permission to post it here by the photographer, Derek Buckett. He took the photo at Carlisle Upperby on 31st July 1966.

 

 

I was a bit intrigued by the arrangement of the compartments and windows at the end nearest the loco. Clearly now in Departmental use, it really doesn't look as if there would have been enough room for another compartment where the pair of windows are, just after the first compartment. So was it always like that? I wondered if it might have been a rarity from the Flying Scotsman set or suchlike, or has it just been altered from a more conventional carriage?

 

I am no expert on LNER or ex LNER carriages but it isn't an arrangement I am familiar with. I thought the assembled LNER enthusiasts might be able to identify the vehicle.

 

I am sure somebody on here will know.

 

Cheers

 

Tony

 

 

[JamesSpooner]

33 minutes ago, t-b-g said:

The attached photo turned up on the internet the other day and I have asked (and been given) permission to post it here by the photographer, Derek Buckett. He took the photo at Carlisle Upperby on 31st July 1966.

 

 

I was a bit intrigued by the arrangement of the compartments and windows at the end nearest the loco. Clearly now in Departmental use, it really doesn't look as if there would have been enough room for another compartment where the pair of windows are, just after the first compartment. So was it always like that? I wondered if it might have been a rarity from the Flying Scotsman set or suchlike, or has it just been altered from a more conventional carriage?

 

I am no expert on LNER or ex LNER carriages but it isn't an arrangement I am familiar with. I thought the assembled LNER enthusiasts might be able to identify the vehicle.

 

I am sure somebody on here will know.

 

Cheers

 

Tony

 

 

What is also strange, looking at this photo a little more closely, is the nearest third (?) compartment, which seems to be placed at the very end of the carriage, with no space for a vestibule.  If it was originally a corridor coach (as looks likely from the style), how was the vestibule fitted in?
 

Nigel