Wright writes.....

[gr.king]

4 hours ago, jwealleans said:

I have a D2 which I was hoping to bring to Harrogate, but I've had similar problems to Tony with the bogie wheels fouling the underside of the running plate.   When I did some measuring, whoever built it has used 24mm wheels, so hardly surprising that the (correct) bogie wheels drag on the body.   It'll be fine for Newcastle.

It may be thought to be a faff to arrange in some cases, but the approach I now prefer for the building of 4-4-0s, especially those with large leading wheels and flat running plates, avoids that fouling problem and guarantees no nodding of a heavy front. I let the front of the body ride on the bogie (pin in slot to allow the bogie to move sideways as well as turn/rock) and the rear of the body is mounted so as to be free to rock on the tranverse mid-line of the four-coupled drive unit.  The front of the tender can if necessary still be arrange to ride on the drawbar at the rear of the loco to give more adhesive weight which is equally loaded onto the two coupled wheel sets.

[Tony Wright]

Some interesting models for sale...........

 

Built painted by a professional calling himself 'Doncraft'. This is a K's GN Atlantic, fitted with a booster. 

 

It's fitted with a Portescap and I've made sure it runs perfectly. 

 

I must admit to ambivalence about this. It isn't to a 'professional' standard with regard to the painting, but, as mentioned, it does run well. Because of its Portescap, I'm asking £100.00. If I had the time, I'd strip the lot, rebuild it and get Geoff Haynes to paint it, but would costs be recovered? 

 

 

Another from the same stable, and, after I'd worked on it, also a good runner. I think this is finished better, but the price is the same - £100.00; because of its Portescap. Both are older ones and don't whine. 

 

Such is the eBay prices (or so I'm told) of second-hand Portescaps, I believe folk will buy made-up kits with one in them, then scrap the loco just to obtain the Portescap. 

 

 

An Alan Gibson J15 (builder/painter unknown). With its Gibson wheels, still a sweet runner (the drive is a can motor and gear mount).

 

I'm asking £75.00 for this.

 

Now for something properly 'professional'.........

 

 

The very last of the late Paul Bromige's Lawrence/Goddard carriages. This is a lovely LMR suburban 4-set, which I'm asking £300.00 for.

 

As always, if interested, please PM me. 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Tony Wright]

Another item for sale (which I should have dusted!)...........

 

 

An OO Works ex-Midland 2F.

 

This is the last of Brian Lee's models to sell. He bought it in 2012 for £230.00. I'm asking £150.00. 

 

It didn't run well, so I sent it back to OO Works where a new gearbox was fitted (I'll meet the cost of that). It now runs beautifully. 

 

Anyone interested, please PM me. 

 

 

[richard i]

10 hours ago, gr.king said:

and the rear of the body is mounted so as to be free to rock on the tranverse mid-line of the four-coupled drive unit

What does that look like in practice?

thanks

richard 

[BlackRat]

Talking of Lego I tend to find myself drawn into any Lego shops when we visit a city that has one.

 

Usually at the back of the store is an assortment of odd bits and pieces which can be bought by the tub….

 

Lots of ‘useful’ bits can be obtained such as ‘square fours’ which are great for false wagon loads, corner strengthners for scratch built buildings etc, and on a recent visit some odd grey bits, which make fantastic bridge supports etc ( suitably clad).

[t-b-g]

22 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Ah, 

 

The D2 saga..............

 

 

Whilst searching 'D2' on my computer, this popped up. It's yet another WSM D2, but where, why and how I photographed it, I have no idea (the coal rails were not attached, I assure you).

 

The London Road D2 is an excellent kit...............

 

 

 

As I hope the above images show, especially after passing through Mr Rathbone's paint shop. 

 

The LRM D3 is also an excellent kit...........

 

 

 

 

 

Especially after passing through Mr. Haynes' paint shop.

 

We've run another D3 on Little Bytham...........

 

 

During the 1938 weekend. I can't recall whose this is, but it's very nice. 

 

 

 

Now those do like like GNR 4-4-0s. There is an elegance and a balance to the design, as there often is in older locos. The smaller splashers and larger bogie wheels make a huge difference. Lovely stuff!

[gr.king]

8 hours ago, richard i said:

What does that look like in practice?

thanks

richard 

Mid-way between the coupled wheels, on each side of the chassis, small enough to be in-board of the sweep of the rods, a small right-angle bracket is added, with a plain scew-hole in the portion that projects out (in the horizontal plane) from the frames.  Just above the level of the running plate if possible, or higher if it has to be, a similar right angle bracket or a simple block is fitted within the splashers, immediately above the first bracket. There's normally enough room even with separate splashers, as there's usually at least a shallow link between the splashers to accommodate the coupling rods. I either solder a nut to the top bracket, or tap if I've used a block. Machine screws driven in from below, but not tightened fully, leave the four-coupled unit free to see-saw slightly. The screw holes in the brackets on the frames obviously need to be the minimum size to clear the threads of the machine screws. If they are too large the four-coupled unit has too much freedom to crab or waddle.  The portion of the frames ahead of the leading coupled wheels is completely separate from this unit, and fixed firmly to the body.

Unless you have track like a WW1 battlefield, the rocking of neither the four coupled drive unit nor the leading bogie is likely to be enough to result in flanges fouling frames or splashers. 

The method may not be applicable if you have very tight track curves. It depends on whether a slot across the full width of the frames will allow the bogie pin to move far enough to the side.

You might consider this set up as half-way to compensation, although you can take it all the way if necessary by allowing one axle in each four-wheeled portion to rock on a centre-pivot, but for a OO loco that might find itself running on "universal" track with large gaps at the frogs / crossings it can be an advantage to keep the axles rigidly mounted within each four wheeled truck so that "fine" wheels cannot drop into the crossing gaps.

 

In the image I've now added below, the underside of one of my D7 models, you should be able to see the bright heads of the "pivot" screws for the drive unit, between the coupled wheels and inside the line of the rods, on each side. In this case they screw up into a block (also inside the line of the rods) in the low section of the splashers alongside the firebox. The bogie slide slot and screw are also visible, plus the connections to extra pick-ups in the tender. The front, riding on the loco drawbar, could be arranged to bear either on the body or the rear of the chassis, the former putting even weight on both coupled axles, the latter maximising weight on the rear.

Edited March 2, 2023 by gr.king
added info and image

[Northmoor]

On 01/03/2023 at 11:22, Dunsignalling said:

At a practical level (especially for we more senior types) It's probably best to work on that assumption if we desire specific examples of any r-t-r products bar a Hornby Mallard or Flying Scotsman.

 

Probably not never, but re-runs will likely be a few years away rather than a few months.

 

Given the sheer number of liveries in Hatton's programme, I doubt any of the early ones will be revisited before the rest of those already announced have been released.  

If I could make a morbid suggestion, the age profile of model collectors (just like model builders) is such that you might not have to wait as long as you think, for some of the original batch to be released onto the secondhand market............

[Tony Wright]

Just in case the following causes 'outrage' among those who a 'true' modellers, I offer these pictures only as a conversation piece. 

 

 

One of the locos I've got to sell is an old K's ex-MR 2F.

 

It's really a grotty old thing, and was finished in grubby black as an LMS 2F. Now, since it's so close (dependent on one's 'eye of faith') to a J40, I thought why not? 

 

 

So, I've rebranded it to be a M&GNR section J40. Yes, there's certainly more to do, and it can stripped and detailed 'properly'. But, is it worth it? 

 

By the way, apologies for the erroneous BR van. 

 

 

Possibly? Why? Because it ran so badly to start with, with tight spots and the weirdest of pick-ups. However, after a bit of time (continuously consulting my dictionary of really naughty words!), it now runs very, very sweetly. 

 

It certainly can't be worth much, but there's something about bringing old locos back to life which I feel is quite appealing. 

 

Now, out with the howitzers!!!!!

 

I then put her on a passenger train.........

 

 

 

 

 

Composed of those apoplexy-inducing 'Genesis' carriages (actually, only two are Genesis - the brakes - the others are Hornby's). 

 

I have to say, with some weathering/varnishing and painting the over-white roofs grey, they look rather 'attractive'. 

 

Will I keep them (and the, now, J40)? I'm not sure. If nothing else, they allow those without the skills to build appropriate examples of rolling stock antiquity to at least run a train. Anyway, judging by the pace these things fly off the shelves, then they're a manufacturing success story.

 

They'll be left alone for now, as I concentrate on building 'accurate' old carriages of ex-GN, LNWR and MR origin.  

 

 

 

 

[MarkC]

5 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Just in case the following causes 'outrage' among those who a 'true' modellers, I offer these pictures only as a conversation piece. 

 

 

One of the locos I've got to sell is an old K's ex-MR 2F.

 

It's really a grotty old thing, and was finished in grubby black as an LMS 2F. Now, since it's so close (dependent on one's 'eye of faith') to a J40, I thought why not? 

 

 

So, I've rebranded it to be a M&GNR section J40. Yes, there's certainly more to do, and it can stripped and detailed 'properly'. But, is it worth it? 

 

By the way, apologies for the erroneous BR van. 

 

 

Possibly? Why? Because it ran so badly to start with, with tight spots and the weirdest of pick-ups. However, after a bit of time (continuously consulting my dictionary of really naughty words!), it now runs very, very sweetly. 

 

It certainly can't be worth much, but there's something about bringing old locos back to life which I feel is quite appealing. 

 

Now, out with the howitzers!!!!!

 

I then put her on a passenger train.........

 

 

 

 

 

Composed of those apoplexy-inducing 'Genesis' carriages (actually, only two are Genesis - the brakes - the others are Hornby's). 

 

I have to say, with some weathering/varnishing and painting the over-white roofs grey, they look rather 'attractive'. 

 

Will I keep them (and the, now, J40)? I'm not sure. If nothing else, they allow those without the skills to build appropriate examples of rolling stock antiquity to at least run a train. Anyway, judging by the pace these things fly off the shelves, then they're a manufacturing success story.

 

They'll be left alone for now, as I concentrate on building 'accurate' old carriages of ex-GN, LNWR and MR origin.  

 

 

 

 

Your J40 already looks different to the original 2F, Tony. Just removing the clacks makes a big visual difference, doesn't it?

 

That kit is definitely "of its time", but could be made up to look reasonably nice. I had one, some 45 years ago, complete with the Ks Mark 2 motor. It ran, and ran quite well. A friend of mine painted it up in "Wetherburn" style, just because he could! It's still in a box, somewhere - like many of us, I just couldn't bear to throw it out when doing clear outs... In fact, I have one in the roundtuit pile - picked up for pennies on eBay a few years ago. One day, when my Midland mojo returns...

 

The rake of coaches it's hauling looks the part too - venerable stock still making a few pennies for its owners on a secondary route.

 

Mark

[billbedford]

1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Composed of those apoplexy-inducing 'Genesis' carriages (actually, only two are Genesis - the brakes - the others are Hornby's). 

 

I have to say, with some weathering/varnishing and painting the over-white roofs grey, they look rather 'attractive'. 

 

 

Wouldn't these coaches have been plain brown by the mid 30s? I can't imagine Melton Constable taking a lot of effort making them look 'pretty'. 

[Tony Wright]

9 hours ago, billbedford said:

 

Wouldn't these coaches have been plain brown by the mid 30s? I can't imagine Melton Constable taking a lot of effort making them look 'pretty'. 

Undoubtedly, Bill. 

 

Do they make you, as a manufacturer of accurate pre-Grouping carriages, wince? 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Tony Wright
to add something

[Compound2632]

40 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Do they make you, as a manufacturer of accurate pre-Grouping carriages, wince? 

 

Why should they? They're not aimed at the same market as his (or any other manufacturer's) etched or printed carriages, so are not depriving him (or them) of sales. If anything, they will ultimately boost his sales, by leading people in.  

[Dunsignalling]

13 hours ago, Northmoor said:

If I could make a morbid suggestion, the age profile of model collectors (just like model builders) is such that you might not have to wait as long as you think, for some of the original batch to be released onto the secondhand market............

Indeed, and I am of an age where I am beginning to dispose of "SABLE" items that I don't use or anticipate using to save others the trouble (and to assist in finding what I do want to work on). The appearance of very recent models in the pre-owned section of Hatton's website often gives a little start. 

 

It's scary how much bigger the layout in my head is by comparison with the one that's actually developing! I am therefore adopting a discipline of two out (minimum) for every new one coming in.

 

John

 

Edited March 3, 2023 by Dunsignalling

[thegreenhowards]

13 hours ago, Northmoor said:

If I could make a morbid suggestion, the age profile of model collectors (just like model builders) is such that you might not have to wait as long as you think, for some of the original batch to be released onto the secondhand market............

….and for many, they won’t be able to wait for the second run!

[TrevorP1]

46 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Indeed, and I am of an age where I am beginning to dispose of "SABLE" items that I don't use or anticipate using to save others the trouble (and to assist in finding what I do want to work on). The appearance of very recent models in the pre-owned section of Hatton's website often gives a little start. 

 

It's scary how much bigger the layout in my head is by comparison with the one that's actually developing! I am therefore adopting a discipline of two out (minimum) for every new one coming in.

 

John

 

 

I hope to be serviceable for a good few years yet but I'm having similar thoughts. I have too many items that rarely see he light of day, plus a model rally car collection that is just 'there'. Recently I've sold a few cars and been amazed at what some fetch. For the locos I'm with John, at least two out for every one in.

[jamieb]

13 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Just in case the following causes 'outrage' among those who a 'true' modellers, I offer these pictures only as a conversation piece. 

 

 

One of the locos I've got to sell is an old K's ex-MR 2F.

 

It's really a grotty old thing, and was finished in grubby black as an LMS 2F. Now, since it's so close (dependent on one's 'eye of faith') to a J40, I thought why not? 

 

 

So, I've rebranded it to be a M&GNR section J40. Yes, there's certainly more to do, and it can stripped and detailed 'properly'. But, is it worth it? 

 

By the way, apologies for the erroneous BR van. 

 

 

Possibly? Why? Because it ran so badly to start with, with tight spots and the weirdest of pick-ups. However, after a bit of time (continuously consulting my dictionary of really naughty words!), it now runs very, very sweetly. 

 

It certainly can't be worth much, but there's something about bringing old locos back to life which I feel is quite appealing. 

 

Now, out with the howitzers!!!!!

 

I then put her on a passenger train.........

 

 

 

 

 

Composed of those apoplexy-inducing 'Genesis' carriages (actually, only two are Genesis - the brakes - the others are Hornby's). 

 

I have to say, with some weathering/varnishing and painting the over-white roofs grey, they look rather 'attractive'. 

 

Will I keep them (and the, now, J40)? I'm not sure. If nothing else, they allow those without the skills to build appropriate examples of rolling stock antiquity to at least run a train. Anyway, judging by the pace these things fly off the shelves, then they're a manufacturing success story.

 

They'll be left alone for now, as I concentrate on building 'accurate' old carriages of ex-GN, LNWR and MR origin.  

 

 

 

 

Hi Tony 

If you do decide to sell the J40/2F then I may be interested 

 

 

[Tony Wright]

2 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Why should they? They're not aimed at the same market as his (or any other manufacturer's) etched or printed carriages, so are not depriving him (or them) of sales. If anything, they will ultimately boost his sales, by leading people in.  

Good points Stephen,

 

My thoughts were more along the lines of seeing more and more RTR locos/stock on layouts these days, in all scales and gauges; at shows, in the mags and online. I suppose this is an inevitable consequence of improved out-of-the-box stuff, but it can produce a 'sameness'. My recollections of seeing kit-built carriages on layouts at recent shows are few and far between (with the exception of some lovely stuff next to me at Biggleswade). That said, when I showed those modified Hornby generics at the same show, several viewers thought I'd been building etched-brass kits for them! 

 

I hope the sales (and they would appear to be enormous) of the generic pre-Grouping carriages does open folks' eyes to the possibility of building 'correct' ones as well, though time will tell. 

 

Regards,

 

Tony.  

[Dave John]

Then again Tony there are I think a good many modellers like myself who have gone in exactly the opposite direction by choosing to model subjects for which there is no rtr available. Why? Well, I wouldn't claim that my finished models could compare with the best of modern rtr but for me the pleasure of sitting down at the bench and making them far outweighs that of just opening a box and owning them.  It may be that you see less scratchbuilding because of the time taken to make things, but perhaps costs will swing the pendulum the other way. 

 

The bench this morning, not a box in sight;

 

 

 

 

Each to their own I suppose. 

[Chuffer Davies]

5 minutes ago, Dave John said:

Then again Tony there are I think a good many modellers like myself who have gone in exactly the opposite direction by choosing to model subjects for which there is no rtr available. Why? Well, I wouldn't claim that my finished models could compare with the best of modern rtr but for me the pleasure of sitting down at the bench and making them far outweighs that of just opening a box and owning them.  It may be that you see less scratchbuilding because of the time taken to make things, but perhaps costs will swing the pendulum the other way. 

 

The bench this morning, not a box in sight;

 

 

 

 

Each to their own I suppose. 

Well said. I couldn’t agree more.

[Chamby]

18 minutes ago, Dave John said:

Then again Tony there are I think a good many modellers like myself who have gone in exactly the opposite direction by choosing to model subjects for which there is no rtr available....

 

I did something similar about thirty years ago, deciding to model the Montreux Oberland Bahn in HOm, following a most enjoyable holiday in that region of Switzerland.  Since, I found that it was so obscure, at least within the UK, that it was a very lonely place to be in modelling circles.  Most UK modellers working in HOm model the larger RhB that is much better furnished with RTR models.  Being both obscure, and Continental, seems to be a major factor in the disinterest shown by the vast majority of my fellow modellers!

 

So much so that when approaching retirement, and joining a model railway club, I started also modelling OO scale:  Initially to participate in club projects, but then to further develop my own emerging interests.   

 

For me, I found that the social side of modelling through shared interests and wider club life generally, is a large part of my enjoyment of the hobby.  I have no regrets and still cherish my rare-in-the-UK MOB metre gauge collection.  But in OO scale I have found something that is just as enjoyable, but is also fulfilling in so many other ways, because of it’s wider acceptance.  By the time I moved house after retiring, it was an OO project that took shape in the railway room.

 

I think for many of us, there’s probably a sweet spot in the hobby, of developing something that is individual enough to be distinctive and unique, but mainstream enough for it to also retain wider interest.

 

 

[billbedford]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Do they make you, as a manufacturer of accurate pre-Grouping carriages, wince? 

 

Not really. They have tended to increase my feeling (prejudice?) that carriages come some way down the list of things that attract people to model railways. Also, taking "goodness" triangle where the corners represent ease of use, price and fidelity to prototype they can be firmly place in a section close to the line between ease of use and price. 

 

My takeaway is that, while there is a market for pre-group rolling stock, the potential sales of stock for individual companies is not enough to make an investment in tooling worth while. However it has given me food for thought about marketing my own range. 

[Barclay]

18 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Just in case the following causes 'outrage' among those who a 'true' modellers, I offer these pictures only as a conversation piece. 

 

 

One of the locos I've got to sell is an old K's ex-MR 2F.

 

It's really a grotty old thing, and was finished in grubby black as an LMS 2F. Now, since it's so close (dependent on one's 'eye of faith') to a J40, I thought why not? 

 

 

So, I've rebranded it to be a M&GNR section J40. Yes, there's certainly more to do, and it can stripped and detailed 'properly'. But, is it worth it? 

 

By the way, apologies for the erroneous BR van. 

 

 

Possibly? Why? Because it ran so badly to start with, with tight spots and the weirdest of pick-ups. However, after a bit of time (continuously consulting my dictionary of really naughty words!), it now runs very, very sweetly. 

 

It certainly can't be worth much, but there's something about bringing old locos back to life which I feel is quite appealing. 

 

Now, out with the howitzers!!!!!

 

I then put her on a passenger train.........

 

 

 

 

 

Composed of those apoplexy-inducing 'Genesis' carriages (actually, only two are Genesis - the brakes - the others are Hornby's). 

 

I have to say, with some weathering/varnishing and painting the over-white roofs grey, they look rather 'attractive'. 

 

Will I keep them (and the, now, J40)? I'm not sure. If nothing else, they allow those without the skills to build appropriate examples of rolling stock antiquity to at least run a train. Anyway, judging by the pace these things fly off the shelves, then they're a manufacturing success story.

 

They'll be left alone for now, as I concentrate on building 'accurate' old carriages of ex-GN, LNWR and MR origin.  

 

 

 

 

There is absolutely something very appealing about bringing old loco's/kits back to life, I seem to be a sucker for K's at the moment !

[LNER4479]

4 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

My recollections of seeing kit-built carriages on layouts at recent shows are few and far between (with the exception of some lovely stuff next to me at Biggleswade). That said, when I showed those modified Hornby generics at the same show, several viewers thought I'd been building etched-brass kits for them! 

My take on the RTR vs kit build debate (FWIW) is that better quality and greater range RTR simply moves kit building into a different area of the graph.

 

Take the LMS train that I've been developing for the Shap exhibition sequence. In times past, I might have spent my time kit building a decent Princess Royal in full lined LMS livery and merely strung a rake of RTR Hornby Stanier coaches behind it (few would have been the wiser). Now, we finally have a decent quality loco with a livery finish few could match ... as a result, I can spend my available kit building time putting together a far more accurate rake of coaches instead. Once again, it's wasted on most show attendees but it's far more satisfying to me. In practice, RTR offerings merely scratch the surface of what was actually seen in practice in LMS days (ditto for at least the LNER).

[JamesSpooner]

1 hour ago, Barclay said:

There is absolutely something very appealing about bringing old loco's/kits back to life, I seem to be a sucker for K's at the moment !

You certainly brought that coal tank back to life very effectively!
 

cheers

 

Nigel